WHAT!?
Hey Doug, I remember reading in a mailbag that you thought Manny Pacquiao was going to get the benefit of a doubt fighting in Vegas, being the star. Looks like it didn’t turn out that way. How did you score the fight?
I admit that during the delay due to Pacquiao’s bball addiction, stretching routine and other BS, I thought maybe this is Tim Bradley’s night and Pacquiao’s just too distracted. I don’t have a personal scorecard and I don’t pretend to have any competence in scoring fights (I’m just a casual fan or at most a softcore one), but I thought Pacquiao won the fight. Some rounds were close and I do think Bradley won the last round and round 9 or maybe 10, but I think even Bradley knows he didn’t win the fight (judging from the post-fight interview with Max Kellerman inside the ring, the look on his face between rounds and before the scorecards were announced) nor did his corner think he was winning or won.
At the end of the broadcast, Emanuel Steward said something about knockouts: something about being a fan of them, that they are sorely missed or that they are the best way to determine who’s the winner of a fight. As I saw Bradley getting rocked early in the fight, I was hoping to a see a knockout or at least a knockdown. If there’s a rematch, hopefully, we’ll see one then. ? DVH
There probably will be a rematch. I doubt we?ll get a knockout in that fight. Bradley doesn?t have the power to turn out Pacquiao?s lights but he has proven to have a reliable set of whiskers and he?s too elusive for the Filipino star to nail squarely. If Bradley mounted a sustained attack and tried to stay on top of Pacquiao when he had the advantage the southpaw bomber might clip him, but I think Timmy knows better than to do that.
Regarding the fight, I thought Bradley boxed very well and even fought well in spots, but I don?t think he did enough to win the majority of rounds. I thought it was a competitive fight, but one that Pacquiao clearly won. I scored it 117-111 (or nine rounds to three) for the odds favorite. I thought Bradley won the first, sixth and seventh rounds. That?s it.
I do believe there were a few close rounds. The fifth was a round I scored for Pacquiao that could have gone to Bradley in my opinion. Maybe one of the late rounds that I scored for Pacquiao, perhaps the ninth, could have gone to the undefeated American. So I can see 116-112 or 115-113 cards for Pacquiao, butto have a 115-113 tally for Bradley (or even a draw) seems as though the underdog was ?given? rounds just for being competitive. There?s a difference between competitive round and a close round. I thought Bradley was competitive down the stretch, he wasn?t running away from Pacquiao, and he made the future hall of famer miss, but he did not make him pay. He didn?t put a hurt on Pacquiao, and to be honest, it didn?t seem like he was really trying to win the fight in the late rounds the official judges gave him.
That?s just my opinion. Was it the worst decision I?ve ever seen? Not at all. The Brandon Rios-Richard Abril decision just a few months ago was much worse. However, it was one of the more shocking outcomes to a fight involving a bona-fide star that I?ve seen or covered. I definitely did not envision Pacquiao getting the s__t-end of a controversial decision.
THE JUDGES
Hi, I had Pac winning 117-111, maybe I could give Bradley one more round. It’s not Bradley’s fault he won, but in very questionable calls as this, why do the judges go home with no accountability every time? Why are they not brought on live TV and forced to explain themselves? They should be required to show their faces and answer tough questions. Thanks. ? Dave
I agree, Dave. I?d like to start seeing the judges interviewed on TV after the fights (as we sometimes see the referees defend or explain controversial calls) and I?d like to see them take the podium during post-fight press conferences so their names and point of views can be part of more articles on the fight.
Here?s an article by Kevin Iole, of Yahoo! Sports, that includes comments from judge Duane Ford. If Ford made the exact same statements he made in Iole?s story to Max Kellerman during the HBO Pay Per View broadcast or to the assembled media at the post-fight press conference on Saturday night I bet there would be a little less outrage among fans today.
The clandestine manner in which boxing judges usually go about their jobs contributes to the fans? suspicion and cynicism following controversial decisions.
DISGRACEFUL
Dougie, What can I say? You will get all the ?boxing is dead? or ?fixed? rhetoric as well as a few ‘smart’ heads who will make a case for Bradley winning. But tonight was absolutely disgraceful! It makes me sick that Bob Arum will see a dime for selling a rematch. I’ve seen over 500 fights in my life and have grown numb to bad decisions. However, none has left me with such a bitter taste as this.
On one of the biggest stages of the year boxing does more to keep people away. Maybe we aren’t meant to enjoy this great sport. Maybe I’m a fool for thinking it can change for the better. I’m almost out the door, brother. I’ve done everything to convince myself to stay and defend it over the last 20 years. What would make anyone want to stay and follow boxing, Dougie? ? Jay from Chi-town
The action and in-the-ring drama will keep most of us who have followed the sport for years coming back and it will convert the occasional casual/curious observer into a hardcore fan, but boxing certainly will not grow with poor judging (especially when bad scorecards ruin the results of high-profile main events that many people paid extra to watch).
It?s bad enough that the best fighters and fights are exclusive to subscription cable and pay-per-view shows in the U.S., but when the diehard fans who shell out the extra dough that keeps the sport alive in this country have their intelligence insulted with bad decisions I just don?t see boxing attracting new followers. The young potential fans hear too much complaining from the older hardcore heads to even want to bother with boxing.
For boxing to have a fighting chance to thrive in the 21st Century something has got to be done about the quality of judging and officiating of high-profile bouts.
WHOA!
Doug,
I’m a Bradley fan, and I pegged him to win Saturday night. I don’t think he did. At most I gave him 3 rounds. When the scores were first read, I cried “BULLS__T!” to my television. Everyone agreed.
Having said that, props to Bradley and Pacquiao. Neither one pulled a “I’m the greatest!” ego-maniacal douche bag moment at the end. You can’t expect a prize fighter to say “I lost” when given the decision. Also, neither cried foul of the judges? scores or crapped on their opponent. They were complete gentlemen afterwards and I think that’s a good thing.
Second, this shouldn’t have perplexed HBO as much as it did. The whole fight they kept talking about how Pacquiao appeared to be consciously taking the first two minutes of every round off and then flurrying to win the last minute. Now, in a lot of those flurries I think Bradley gave as good as he got (especially in the later rounds). So, you’re a Vegas judge and Manny isn’t fighting much for 2 minutes, then the third minute you see an ‘even’ fight. Who do you give the round to? It’s quite possible you give the edge to Bradley. Judges don’t have the virtue of CompuBox to help them in their decisions. They go off of what they see. So, if you have that situation going on, and admittedly you’re giving the benefit of the doubt to Bradley, I can totally see 115-113 for him. I don’t agree with it. I saw 117-111 at best for Pacquiao (without the benefit of the sound off), but I don’t think it is the highway robbery or the Bob Arum machinations a lot of bloggers and posters are screaming about.
Regardless, rematch is coming and we’ll see if Pacquiao brings the heat, or if Bradley learns from his experience and grows from it. Personally, I’m looking forward to it. ? Kyle in Washington
You are proof that boxing will always have a small but dedicated fan base in the U.S., Kyle. You don?t mind too much if the judges or broadcasters see a different fight than you did and you don?t mind watching a pay-per-view rematch of controversial pay-per-view fight that was mildly entertaining at best. In other words, you?re a rational boxing fan with disposable income. God bless America.
Personally, I think Bradley-Pacquiao II is a hard sell. Maybe if Arum and HBO really push the ?Pacquiao?s revenge? angle and Bradley, who is better known to casual fans now, guarantees a better fight (with healthy ankles) the rematch can do better numbers than the first fight. However, I don?t think Saturday?s event did well by Pacquiao?s usual PPV and live gate standards. I?m positive there will be a considerable drop in pay-per-view and ticket-sales revenue from the Pacquiao-Marquez III and Pacquiao-Mosley events of last year.
FAIR DECISION, RIDICULOUS OUTRAGE
Dougie! What is going on my man?
So I believe I am in the minority by saying that I am not outraged by the Bradley-Pac decision. I watched the fight on a non-English speaking feed and scored it a draw. I marked the rounds that I believed could have gone either way and 115-113 in either direction did not seem unfair. You read some online articles or listen to people like Lampley and Teddy Atlas saying this is THE worst decision they have ever seen and I just can’t believe what I am hearing. This is not even the worst decision in the past 3 months! Go ask Richard Abril which has been the worst decision in the last 3 months and I bet he will have a different answer than some of these analysts.
I thought the fight was pretty even throughout, Bradley remained aggressive and did not back down, meanwhile Pac stayed busy but just could not get him out of there. Pac gave away the last 3 rounds.
How did you see it? I for one am glad that maybe we can officially stop talking about the Floyd Mayweather-Pac “dream fight” at least until November. I think that Timmy can beat Pac again by decision in their rematch. I wonder if Pac now feels any compassion towards a sour Marquez?
What did you think about Kelly Pavlik? I don’t see him up at the championship level. Maybe that train has left the station for him. And Mike Lee… ughhh he was hard to watch! Glad to see the Randall Bailey’s of the world maintain their status as true litmus tests.
Who do you have for this weekend? I think Andy Lee is a live dog and will take Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. out of there if he does not come ready!
Alright Dougie, don’t lose your cool with the overflow of emails talking about how Arum bought the judges to affect his cash cow! Take care. ? Hector
Anyone who thinks Arum wanted Bradley to win an unpopular decision over the star of his company is completely out of his or her mind. And I?m guessing they weren?t at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, where Pacquiao failed to sell out the venue for the first time in many years. There were cheap seats available the day of the fight, just an hour or two before the pay-per-view portion of the card was to begin. Unlike Marquez, Mosley, Cotto, Hatton, and De La Hoya, Bradley did not bring star power or a dedicated fan base to this event.
I?m not sure winning a controversial decision is going to change that fact. Arum knows this. He likes Timmy and I can tell that he?s sincere when he says that he?s happy for the Palm Springs native, but Bradley?s victory will cost Top Rank money. Arum stood to make a lot more dough from Pacquiao-Marquez IV than he will with Bradley-Pacquiao II.
Anyway, I agree that Saturday?s decision is not the worst ever. It?s the shock factor of a bona-fide super star losing a fight that most thought he won that has everyone up in arms.
I also agree that Lee is a live dog against Junior, but I think Chavez?s solid chin, size and steady aggression will see him through to a decision (hopefully not a controversial one).
I wonder how many current RING-ranked welterweights would pass the litmus test of the new IBF titleholder.
I?ll reserve an opinion on Pavlik?s upside until I see him in with a better caliber opponent.
Regarding Pacquiao-Bradley, I don?t think the defending WBO welterweight titleholder gave away the last three rounds. I thought Bradley moved well in the championship rounds. He slipped and blocked Pacquiao?s punches and he let his hands go in spots, but I didn?t think he ever mounted an effective offense against Pacquiao, who did often wait until the last minute to take it to the challenger ? but when he did, he got results. Timmy usually backed off or found himself on the ropes or in a corner, ducking, twisting and rolling to avoid getting clipped.
Maybe I?m just a jaded old man who was spoiled by the great prize fighters I watched tangle in the mega-fights of 1980s, but I wanted more from Bradley.
Good point about Bradley?s victory killing the pointless ?dream fight? talk (at least until November). That might be the only positive outcome of the decision.
WTF?
Dear Doug: W T F
PS – I am still dumbfounded by last night’s decision. How do you take belts away with that performance? Williams/Lara, Rios/Abril, now this? Seriously? I’ve definitely learned the only scorecards I can trust are yours, anyone named Lederman (aka Harold and Julie), and Adalaide Byrd. I’ve also learned that any future PPV’s I watch will be pirated on the internet for free because I’m done paying for this garbage.
Sincerely. ? Matt In Mattawan
You?ve put me in good company, Matt (as long as you don?t count Byrd?s MMA scorecards). I?m honored.
I won?t condemn your choice to pirate internet feeds of pay-per-view shows (as long as you provide me links).
DELIROUS? DARKNESS IS SPREADING?
Hey Dougie, As much as I hate these types of outcomes in any fight, I couldn’t help but be happy after the scorecards were read… almost giddy.
This horrible decision is revenge for Mayweather and Pacquiao not giving the fans the super fight that only comes around every decade or so, JMM never getting the nod that he deserved against Manny, and of course…for robbing my boy, Carlos “Famoso” Hernandez. Ok Ok, so that was Bobby Pacquiao…but still!
Anyways, Pacquiao will probably beat Bradley in their rematch, Bob Arum will live to slither another day, and boxing will continue to be the successful doctor who became a heroin addict in the family that is American sports.
Excuse me while I go watch some UFC on network TV. ? Bobby
Well stated, Bobby, although I don?t understand viewing a horrible decision as ?revenge? for perceived transgressions of other judges and the fighter who got screwed.
Pacquiao had as much to do with getting the nod against Marquez as Bradley had of winning Saturday?s fight. Only Duane Ford and Chuck Giampa can be blamed for Bob-Pac outpointing ?Famoso.?
FAVORITE-GETS-SCREWED TOP 5
Hey Doug,
The fight last Saturday is a rare kind of robbery. The fighter who is the favorite to win the fight was the one who got robbed.
Can you list your top 5 boxing robberies wherein the favorite was the one who got robbed? ? Jacob
Good question, Jacob.
Pacquiao-Bradley is the worst screwing of an odds/media favorite I?ve ever witnessed live or covered as media, followed by Bernard Hopkins-Jermain Taylor I.
My top 5 would have to go: 5. Larry Holmes-Michael Spinks I, 4. Carlos Zarate-Lupe Pintor, 3. Oscar De La Hoya-Shane Mosley II, 2. Marvin Hagler-Sugar Ray Leonard, and 1. Pacquiao-Bradley.
I should note that I agreed with the official verdicts in the De La Hoya-Mosley rematch (as did much of press row) and the Hagler-Leonard showdown. I?ve included them because of the strong public outrage.
HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?
Dougie, How did so many people score this fight for Pacquiao? And what, exactly, is he going to do different in a rematch? I watched the Top Rank feed, not the HBO feed, so it might be that I didn’t have Manny’s cheerleading squad in my ear, saying he won 11 rounds to 1 (hilarious). If this is supposed to be a fix, who’s supposed to have made money off killing the biggest event in sports, and the second biggest cash cow in boxing? The response to this whole thing has been surreal.
Then again, a lot of these are the same people who say he beat Marquez with a straight face, and who think he’s an ALL TIME great (which is as big an overstatement as when people use to compare Jones to Robinson). Oh well, I hope people don’t get so swept up that they overlook Bailey’s beautiful (terrifying) knockout. Great night for Bradley and Bailey. ? Todd
Great night for Bradley and Bailey; bad night for boxing.
It can?t be good for the sport when at least 90 percent of the people watched it live (either from ringside or via broadcast) view a comfortable victory for one fighter but the official judges see an ?either-way? fight that two score for the other guy.
I agree 11-1 for Pacquiao is extreme, but I also view 7-5 for Bradley as extreme.
Most of the ringside media had PacMan winning by a 4-to-8-point margin. These guys weren?t listening to Pacquiao?s HBO ?cheerleading squad? and they aren?t fans of the Filipino icon. More than a few who thought Pacquiao won by a landslide also think he?s is overrated. I know that a couple scribes were hoping Pacquiao would lose. But they had to call the fight the way they saw it.
CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN BRADLEY?S WIN?
Hey Doug! Like so many others I am a long time reader, and thought I’d finally drop you a comment.
First off the PacMan-Desert Storm fight:
I understand people saying Pac didn’t dominate this. I agree that he didn’t. But he DID win a close decision.
If you’re saying Desert Storm took this home, you need to explain HOW.
Boxing, as we all know, is scored on 4 criteria (clean punching, effective aggression, ring generalship and defence), the first of these generally accepted to be slightly more important than the other three.
Of the people saying Tim won, the only argument I have seen being made for his success is Tim getting the better of the highly subjective ‘ring generalship’ aspect – only ONE (and not the most important) scoring criteria.
Simply put: PacMan landed more (MORE – not saying Tim didn’t land TOO) clean punches and showed better effective aggression than Bradley throughout the fight. To me, PacMan’s defence was actually really good in this fight as well, with Bradley throwing very many punches on gloves and arms (again, not saying he landed NOTHING). Ring generalship is up for discussion, but even if you give this hands down to Bradley, you’ll have the majority of rounds like this:
1. Clean blows – Pac 2. Aggression – Pac 3. Defence – Pac/Tim 4. Ring Generalship – Tim
Of these, I don’t think 1 and 2 are up for discussion, whereas I can see why some think 3 and 4 are debatable. Still, it leaves no doubt as to who won. Again talking about the majority of rounds here – I can see Bradley winning on more criteria in a minority of rounds.
You can make the case for this fight being really close. You can’t make the case for Bradley beating Pac unless you completely ignore some of the scoring criteria and only look at – for instance – ring generalship.
I guess this firmly puts Mayweather at P4P number 1, which I’m actually fine with. Just hope it doesn’t prompt his retirement before taking a couple more tough fights putting that ‘0’ on the line.
Anyway, the decision is what it is, and there are plenty of other fights to look forward to. My personal favorite for the summer is Haye v. Chisora – I just have a feeling its gonna be good, and then of course Kessler vs. whoever, since I’m naturally a huge fan of my only elite boxing countryman. Which fight are you looking forward to the most?
Just one more question: Interestingly, Max Kellerman noted that people ringside seemed to have scored the fight differently based on where they were sitting. Do judges only watch live, or do they have a telecast with replays etc. available while they score? You think making this available would help reduce the number of questionable decisions?
(P.S. How cool would it be if Mikkel Kessler had ‘Mjolnir’ tattooed on his left fist following that brutal left hook KO of Allan Green. Would fit right in with the Viking Warrior moniker, and I loved how several commentators picked that one up after the fight 🙂
Thanks for an always entertaining mailbag! ? Kasper from Denmark
I think it would be nerdy awesome cool if Kessler got Thor?s hammer tatted on his left arm, and I stated so in the Monday mailbag following the Green fight.
Judges only watch the fight live from where they sit on the ring apron. They do not watch video replays. Doing so could conceivably help them score a fight.
The more lopsided scores in favor of Pacquiao came from press row media members who sat closest to the ring.
I?m looking forward to this Saturday?s fights (Chavez-Lee and Adamek-Chambers), the Lucas Matthysse-Humberto Soto 140-pound fight on June 23, and, of course, the Gennady Golovkin-Dmitry Pirog middleweight showdown on Aug. 25. (There?s also a rare title unification bout between Japanese standouts, 108-pound beltholders Kazuto Ioka and Akira Yaegashi, on June 20 that I?m going to try to watch live.)
I don?t see why Pacquiao, the victim of an undeserved loss, should be punished by being demoted in the rankings ? both pound-for-pound and welterweight ? but to be honest, I?m so sick of the mental masturbation that is the pointless Mayweather-Pacquiao debate that I don?t care if Floyd is installed as the No. 1 welterweight, No. 1 pound for pound boxer, or even as ?Soul Brotha No. 1.?
WORST PPV CARD IN HISTORY
Several points from a frustrated boxing fan.
1) I’m glad Jones got knocked out by Bailey. He’s simply not a good fighter and doesnt deserve to put us to sleep any further on Pacquiao undercards. Nice guy, not a nice addition to any card. 2) I give Arce the benefit of the doubt since he’s a proven warrior. That fight looked like it was going to be fantastic. Hopefully, we can see a rematch soon. 3) The Bradley decision is the worst I have ever seen and I have been an avid boxing fan for 15 years now. I don’t get it. You could read Bradley’s body language and he knew he didn’t win. This really pisses me off having to see so many MMA fans talking trash right now about my sport, but I really can’t blame them today.
Now for the question of all questions. I hate to ask it because this is my favorite sport by far, but……WAS THE FIX IN? Bob Arum knows there are not too many fighters out there that Manny can face outside of Mayweather and he knows that Manny is getting older. I think Arum also has little hope that Mayweather and Manny will ever fight. That being said, what is the biggest money maker for Top Rank and Manny? Every promoter knows a redemption fight for a mega star fighter like Pacquiao is a must see and even though we are all saying right now that we will never buy another pay per view, we all know deep down inside that we are full of s__t. I know I am because I’d buy the next one for sure.
Please tell me if I’m becoming jaded! ? Paul, San Antonio, Texas
You?re not becoming jaded, Paul, you?re becoming crazy. Arum has lost money because of Bradley?s victory. He?s a shrewd businessman. He doesn?t like losing money. His company would have benefitted a lot more from Pacquiao-Marquez IV than Bradley-Pacquiao II. Enough of the ?fix? nonsense, folks.
I?m happy for Bailey and look forward to seeing him fight the Kell Brook-Carson Jones winner (hopefully on U.S. TV). It will be interesting to see if Jones can bounce back from this kind of KO loss. That was the KO of the year, so far, IMO.
I absolutely give Arce the benefit of the doubt. I don?t think he was trying to sneak away from a hard fight. I don?t care to see Bradley-Pacquiao II but I?ll watch Arce-Rojas II.
OUTRAGE
Dear Doug:
Where were these judges when I fought Manny?
Sincerely ? Juan Manuel Marquez
They would have had you winning by shutout, champ.
PAC GETS BONKED
Hey Doug,
I can’t believe this. Pac really did get bonked. Not so much by Bradley’s head as by the judges. What the f__k?!! Who would have thought that HBO’s top cash-cow in boxing would get screwed like that by the judges, even with this era filled with horse-s__t decisions. And really, Bradley’s “win” was a smoldering pile of skunk-s__t. Some fans believe that the whole thing was a big fix set up by Sponge-Bob Square-Ass. Maybe. But why would boxing and especially Top Rank screw it’s golden goose like that? To prevent Pac going up against Sponge-Bob’s enemy Floyd Mayweather? No need to prevent something that wasn’t even going to happen in the first place.
Maybe those two judges were on drugs or they were gay. Who knows? With that said and done, I’ll still tip my hat off to Bradley (providing he himself can stretch a hat over that big Charlie Brown-head of his).
Hey, I didn’t even think he was going to last past the sixth round let alone fight on to the finish. Especially with that injury he sustained in the second round. His heart and balls are even bigger than his cranium. I’ll give him that.
Anyways, a bull-s__t win still goes in the record-books as a win I suppose. So that means I’ll lay off for a couple of months. And for those ass-holes who?ve been cursing me out after my E-mails: Thank the judges.
Take care, Dougie. I’ll still be reading. ? Todd The Terminator
We?ll miss you, Todd. (Well, I will, anyway.)
You cracked me up with the Charlie Brown comparison. (After the scorecards were announced on Saturday, I felt like yelling ?Aaugh!? the way Chuck always did when he lost a baseball game or when Lucy would yank the football away from him just as he was about to kick it.)
You should open a Twitter account just stay sharp until your triumphant return to the mailbag. May I suggest ?Fake Lem Satterfield?? (Just kidding.)
