BOXING?S PED PROBLEM
Sup Dougie,
Imma keep it short and not so sweet.
If I was upset when Lamont Peterson-Amir Khan II was canceled, I’m even more upset to hear Victor Ortiz-Andre Berto II is canceled for pretty much the same reason. This just sucks!!! The big wigs in boxing have to realize that there?s a steroid problem and confront it head-on.
Now I hear that the Peterson-Khan cancellation cost Golden Boy $1 million. Let?s say that the Ortiz-Berto cancellation is another million lost. Wouldn’t it save Golden Boy to simply RANDOMLY (key word) drug test their fighters before announcing the fight to the public? Before signing all these contracts between fighters, managers, networks, or spending money on promoting the fight?
That would make the sport cleaner and save the promoters money. What do you think? ? Peter, Houston, TX
I agree with you, Peter. I?m not Gabriel Montoya when it comes to my knowledge and understanding of performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs), but I?m certain that year-round random testing of world-class boxers would ensure a cleaner sport and less fight cancellations due to failed anti-doping tests.
However, it can?t just be Golden Boy Promotions pushing the truly Olympic style testing (which is blood and urine at any time during the year). The two fighters who failed the VADA testing (Peterson and Berto) were not promoted by GBP. The other major promoters have to be on board for this to work.
I?ve written this before, but it would be great for the image of the sport if the elite fighters ? particularly those who make the most money and do the biggest business worldwide, such as Mayweather, Pacquiao and the Klitschko brothers ? agreed to year-round testing.
NEW OPPONENT FOR ORTIZ?
What’s up Dougie,
I’m very disappointed in Andre Berto. He tests positive for ‘roids after he accuses Victor Ortiz. What an ass! As if our beloved sport needs anymore black eyes.
So, who do you think should Ortiz fight next month? You think he should fight Kell Brook on such short notice? I’m pissed because I was really looking forward to the rematch. This is a messed up situation. What do you think, Dougie? ? Miguel, LBC
Yeah, it?s messed up, but at least there was time to salvage the June 23 date, even though Berto won?t be involved. And speaking of Berto, let?s try not to completely bury him before all of the details of his ?contaminated? urine specimen are further examined.
Last night, Montoya, MaxBoxing?s resident PED specialist who seems to have an inside track with VADA, tweeted the following in three parts:
?Andre Berto Update Part 1 of 3: Sources have informed me that Berto’s urine sample has tested positive for ultra-trace amounts (cont.)
Part 2: ultra-trace amounts of Nandrolone in the low parts per trillion range #boxing. (cont.)
Part 3: ultra-trace amount levels are consistent with contamination not intent. #boxing?
It?s too late to save the rematch with Ortiz, but maybe it?s not too late for Berto to save his reputation.
And speaking of late Sunday night tweets, ESPN.com?s Dan Rafael tweeted that Josesito Lopez would replace Berto against Ortiz on June 23, sourcing the junior welterweight fringe contender?s management and Showtime. (The Notorious D.A.N also tweeted that Lopez?s stable mate ? and Al Haymon client ? will be added to the Showtime broadcast, making the Staples Center event a tripleheader.)
I hope to one day see Kell Brook take on Ortiz and the other top U.S. welterweights, but the UK standout has a July 7 date with Carson Jones, which could vault him to the top position in the IBF?s rankings if he wins, so he isn?t available to stand in for Berto. Plus, Brook, an undefeated British attraction, is not the type of fighter to act as a sub or take a fight on late notice.
Lopez also had a fight scheduled (with Kendal Holt on June 22) but the opportunity against Ortiz is the biggest fight of his somewhat under-the-radar career. Plus, Lopez comes a lot cheaper for GBP than Brook or another top welterweight contender would have, and he?s local. He (and his big buddy Arreola) will sell tickets.
The knock on Lopez, who hasn?t fought since dropping a close and entertaining SD to Jessie Vargas last September, is that he?s a 140 pounder who used to fight at lightweight. However, he?s nearly 6-feet tall and he?s got a hell of a chin. He?s also rarely in a bad fight.
WHAT?S NEXT FOR VIKING WARRIOR?
Hey Dougie,
I figure you’ll be drowning in emails about doping and PED’s this weekend, so here is one about actual boxing 😉
As most people know by know, Mikkel Kessler looked a mixture of rusty and awesome in dispatching Allan Green. Well, at least the last punch was awesome! I was watching alone in the darkness of my living room, trying to muffle my “oohs” and “aaahs” because my family were sleeping in the adjoining chamber. Kessler is all we have at world level here in Denmark, so I don’t like to miss his fights, even if they are on so late at night they ruin the rest of my weekend.
The question, of course, is what is next for him, as this was nothing more than a tune-up. Kessler is in the privileged position of being a draw and having his own audience. He was able to pull in a 15,000 strong crowd for this fight, which wasn’t even for a real title or against a well-known contender (nobody in Denmark are likely to have heard of Allan Green before). The PPV cost close to 85 dollars, which is saying something. I pay only 5 dollars to watch either of the Klitschkos on the same channel. But I digress. Kessler weighed in little more than 2 pounds over the SMW limit for this fight. It’s clear that he probably doesn’t belong physically at LHW. Still, I could envision him being the 175-pound version of Cotto: the small, but skilled cat among the big, fat pigeons. I could definitely see Kessler beating Nathan Cleverly or Tavoris Cloud who don’t have his skill or experience, or perhaps even Hopkins who seems past it at last. As long as Kessler avoids Chad Dawson, he should be OK at the weight, imo. Your thoughts?
Other natural matchups could be made at 168, where a lucrative in-house Sauerland fight against the winner of Abe Abraham-Rob Stieglitz seems like a logical fight to make. Otherwise a rematch with Carl Froch or perhaps a crack at Lucian Bute might be a good idea. Andre Dirrell vs Kessler would be a fight for the fans, but “the Matrix” unfortunately has little to offer Kessler as he is neither a draw on his own nor does he possess a belt.
What fights would you like to see at 168 and 175 in the near future? Ward and Dawson needn’t be mentioned as they are fighting each other! Keep up the good work + Best wishes. ? Benjamin Lun?e
Thanks Benjamin. It?s nice to hear from a fan in Denmark. I had no idea it was so expensive to watch Kessler in his own country. I assumed the Viking Warrior was on network TV.
Anyway, my guess is that Kessler will drop back down to super middleweight and look for the winners of this Saturday?s Bute-Froch showdown or the Stieglitz-Abraham fight. Those are big fights in Europe (or in the Quebec province if he winds up fighting Bute) and there would be plenty of interest among American fans, too.
However, don?t rule out an eventual showdown with Dawson, who has wanted to fight Kessler for many years. Kessler chose to fight above 168 pounds and to pay the WBC?s sanctioning fee for the ?right? to square off for their 175-pound ?Silver? belt for a reason. In winning the Silver title, Kessler gained an automatic No. 1 ranking in the WBC?s light heavyweight ratings. Guess who holds the WBC title?
Win or lose against Ward, which is taking place at super middleweight, Dawson can always come back up to light heavyweight and fight Kessler in a high-profile bout.
I?d like to see Kessler fight once or twice more at super middleweight (the high-profile bouts we discussed) and then campaign full time at light heavy. Why? Because there are good matchups to be made at 175 pounds but they aren?t happening. We?ve got a talented RING champ and three beltholders (Cloud, Cleverly and Shumenov) who are in their primes but they don?t seem interested in fighting each other. So the division needs a respected ?challenger? with a name to stir it up.
I think Kessler, who is definitely more of a fighter than a boxer under Jimmy Montoya?s guidance, could be that guy. Kessler, who seems to have slowed down a bit, makes for better fights now that he?s discovered the uppercut and the left hook and is no longer just a jab- and one-two specialist.
That left hook that he downed Green with would have made the Mighty Thor proud. Kessler should start calling it ?Mjolnir.?
BRITS BRINGING THE DRAMA
Hello there Dougs,
I am a long time reader of your column but this is the first time I have written to you. I am English, so I might be a little biased, but the Brits are bringing some drama to boxing. Long gone are the days of the ?stay at home fighter? in the ilk of Joe Calzaghe and Ricky Hatton and their early career exploits of avoiding the best fighters in the world.
I know you don?t like to talk about Dereck Chisora too much, for obvious reasons, but this kid is not messing about fighting bums and padding out his record like most of the heavyweight prospects, which is how it should be. This kind of mentality is now becoming the norm with British boxers.
Look at the likes of Carl Froch, Amir Khan, Matthew Macklin, Michael Murray and Jon Murray. These guys have really been testing themselves and don?t care if they have to travel into their opponent?s back-yard to take on a challenge. Even the likes of David Haye have fought in the back-yards of World Champions. Love or hate Khan, he has consistently taken on tough opponents on American soil and you can?t fault him for that!
Win, lose or draw, these guys are not hiding from anyone! It makes me proud to be a British boxing fan at this time and wish that other boxers from around the world would follow this kind of throwback boxing mentality. Keep up the good work Dougs, I really enjoy reading your column every week. Peace out! ? Wozza in Thailand
Thanks for finally emailing me, Wozza, but why do you refer to me as ?Dougs,? as though my name is plural? Like your boy Ricky Hatton there?s only one Dougie Fischer. (And if any imposters pop up you better believe I?ll go ?Highlander? on their sorry asses.)
Anyway, I don?t hate or love Khan but I like the guy and more importantly I respect him because he clearly wants to fight the best, and as you stated, he?s not afraid to travel in search of a challenge. But as tough as Khan?s schedule has been, nobody challenges himself as much as Froch does.
Bute will be the seventh consecutive RING-ranked super middleweight that Froch has faced since winning his first major title by out-slugging and outpointing then-undefeated Jean Pascal (who went on to win the WBC and RING light heavyweight titles).
The Cobra is used to fighting world-class opposition and because of that experience, I think he?ll be able to deal with Bute?s difficult style and athleticism and come on strong over the second half of the bout to score a minor upset at home.
But even if Froch loses to the ultra-talented southpaw, I hope young British standouts emulate his attitude.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY
What up D Fish,
I haven’t written in a while but I always try to around our birthday (May 20th), so happy birthday! This year I’m turning 40 and I’m feeling good about it but at the same time remembering friends I’ve lost who won’t ever see this milestone. Anyway, just want to say over the years when I hit up Maxboxing in the past and The Ring now reading your work was like kickin it with one of my partners. I’m pissed because I haven’t seen The Avengers, pissed about Peterson V Khan being cancelled and still rolling tough with my Paid in Full CD in my truck.
Real quick, Peterson had something to hide. That’s why no one said anything. You can’t tell me if there nothing wrong this guy would allow any questions during the height of his career. Too bad because I loved seeing Khan get banged up. Regarding Floyd, honestly he’s done very little of note to me since he fought Chico. You pointed out Cotto is slow, short with short arms but he gave Money hell. Imagine Cotto in the ring with Ray Leonard or Tommy Hearns. Two round blowout! That’s the measuring stick Floyd asked for and he just doesn’t measure up. Neither does Pacman. Both are idiots as I don’t care how rich you are who can’t work out a deal where both men stand to clear an additional 70 million? Idiots!
Andy Lee is going to stop Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. representing the Kronk gym. Canelo got hit too much by a ghost named Shane Mosley. Fighting James Kirkland is dangerous for him. I love B- Hop but it truly is time. Bad Chad ain?t so bad and a truly bad dude (Andre Ward) will explain it. Why did Kesseler fight Allan Green? Didn’t he lose his last 2? I like Seth Mitchell but he don’t need to see either of the doctors anytime soon.
Here’s a mythical fight for you, prime Tommy Hearns v prime Roy Jones at 160. I personally got the Hitman by 5 round stoppage.
Stay up D Fish and keep it movin. Damn the haters and you aren’t too graphic just funny as hell with some of the pictures you paint. ? Mike Howza from da 313!
Thanks for the kind words, Mike. It?s great to hear from you. I didn?t know (or perhaps I forgot) that we share the same birthday. I was hoping to finally see The Avengers yesterday but I spent the late afternoon bowling (not my idea) with the wife and our two girls before dinner at a good Brazilian place. Nothing special, but I enjoyed the family time. I guess I should thank Peterson for that.
Real quick:
I agree Peterson didn?t want anyone to know about that testosterone replacement treatment.
Mayweather has impressed me more than a few times since he dominated the dearly departed Diego Corrales, including his bouts against Jose Luis Castillo, Zab Judah, Ricky Hatton, Shane Mosley and Cotto; however I haven?t been blown away by any performance of his since he scored a technical stoppage of Jesus Chavez in November of 2001.
Oh my God, I don?t even want to attempt to envision what Leonard or Hearns would have done to Cotto. You know I have mad respect for Cotto, but he wouldn?t compete at all with the prime 147- or 154-pound versions of those two hall of famers.
You are correct that both Mayweather and Pacquiao fail to measure up to Leonard and Hearns. In not forcing their promotional/managerial representatives to make the fight that would likely define their careers, both Floyd and Manny are showing that they lack all-time great character.
I don?t see Lee stopping Chavez. If there?s one physical attribute Junior seems to have inherited from his old man, it?s a solid chin. I can see Lee outboxing Chavez, but I wonder if he?ll get the nod in Texas.
Kirkland would indeed be dangerous for Saul Alvarez, but it doesn?t look like that fight will happen in September. Canelo might take on Paul Williams, who?s no walk in the park, either.
It?s definitely time for Hopkins, one of the few contemporary fighters I consider great, to retire.
I think Ward-Dawson is close to being a toss-up match, although I favor Dre (especially at 168 pounds).
Green had won two bouts going into the Kessler fight ? a KO of a journeyman and a 10-round decision over Sebastien Demers (who was coming off two consecutive KO losses).
If Mitchell fights either K-brother in the next two years he?ll need a medical doctor.
Hearns-Jones at middleweight would be fun because either guy could end it with a single punch, but RJ was skittish against badasses and the Hitman ? whose jab would keep Jones off balance and backing up ? never lacked confidence. I agree with your opinion.POSSIBLE MATCHUPS
Hey Doug, How would you see the following fights going:
– Gennady Golovkin vs Saul Alvarez – Ricky Burns vs Richard Abril – Kell Brook vs Victor Ortiz – David Price/Tyson Fury vs Seth Mitchell – Roberto Duran vs Henry Armstrong (lightweight)
Have a good week! ? James, London
-Golovkin by mid-to-late TKO
-Burns by close decision (in a stinker)
-Brook by up-from-the-canvas decision (in a good fight)
-Price by decision (Fury) and TKO (Mitchell) ? both are good fights
-Duran by hard-fought decision (in a great fight)
FRIDAY MAILBAG REPLY
Doug,
I think that, (based upon what little I have seen on TV and what I?ve read) you are a good enough dude, but to say that Floyd ?lovers? don?t know boxing history as well as Floyd ?haters?(the supposed shot you took at me in the reply to the next mailbag post after mine) is beyond comprehension, even for you. Considering that you really didn?t read my email objectively (surprise), I should have known that it was going to stir a response from you that bordered on contempt for all things Floyd and a temporary break from sanity. As I mentioned in my email, I believe that the version of Floyd that we have seen since he ?semi? retired after destroying Hatton would take a SPLIT decision against Hitman and UD Duran. Aren?t SD?s supposed to be tough disputed fights? However as I also mentioned, these are different fighters in different eras and I only deal with the present, in which Floyd reigns supreme. Your hate for Mayweather will never allow you to look at this objectively.
Now, in going back to your question of do I really think that Floyd would beat Hitman; I need to first make a clarification. Considering Hearns campaigned at 147-160 he would be naturally bigger than Floyd who started at 130. So, I believe that Floyd would have to be at 147 max to SD him. He would have confused the boxer/puncher Hearns with his defensive style much like Sweet Pea did in his day, except with more pop. Going any higher against ?MC Cobra? would have been a crap shoot at best. He was at his best at the lower weights, 130-135, and I think his combination of defensive wizardry and offensive firepower (he knocked guys out in those classes) would have UD Duran. (Quick tangent: you mentioned you would have liked to have seen Floyd unify the title with Frietas? Really? Popo was pupu when he quit against Corrales. Floyd would have embarrassed him). Styles make fights and Duran would have struggled to figure out Floyd and whatever adjustments he made Floyd would have made them in response. He also moved better at the lower weights and we know that Duran had a problem with movement.
I did read some of the drivel from Groves however the fact that he didn?t use the fights that you mentioned in being Moneys greatest fights isn?t all that egregious. He didn?t really struggle in the bout with Judah, except for the first 3-4 rounds. Once he timed Judah?s speed (his hand speed was about as fast as Floyds) he started potshotting him with straight rights until Judah unraveled, threw low blows and looked to get out of the fight. Castillo 1&2 were grueling contests, and I think the second one was a more convincing win than the first. Wasn?t the first fight Mayweather?s first fight at lightweight? Wasn?t there a huge weight difference between the two in both fights? Money still prevailed. Delahoya was a boring fight and his first foray into 154. He was extremely cautious in that fight but did enough to win. Hardly the struggle you make it out to be. In that vein I would only give you Castillo 1. His best performance(s) to date was his dismantling of Corrales (he was never really the same after that fight) and his toying with the so called ?Mexican Master?. I don?t care about the supposed weight difference, he shouldn?t have even been in the ring with Floyd and it showed. His training was shoddy and he drank piss. Floyd has usually been the smaller man in the ring most of the time and on that night the weight difference was one of many natural advantages he enjoyed. Your right my view of Floyd?s career and yours are polar opposites. The only difference is that I can be objective when I am judging him. I?m not sure you possess that same objectivity.
(The fact that you bring up Benitez as a surefire reason Tommy would beat Floyd is asinine. So because he had some defensive skills he could compare to one of the best defensive fighters ever? Benitez took way too many chances in the ring, even for all of his defensive prowess, and would account for Hearns being up and still knocking him out in 15. You and I both know that Floyd doesn?t take those chances and usually dictates the pace with whomever he fights and adjust to those he doesn?t early, and then takes control. I?m not responding on Sugar because I think that Floyd would lose to him, SD or UD.) ? Wiley Harris III
I wasn?t taking a shot at you, personally, when I said Floyd haters have a better grip on boxing history than Floyd lovers. I?ve debated Floyd lovers since the mid-2000s ? heck, I had a brief Twitter shootout with Fake Jim Lampley just yesterday morning ? and my general observation from all of that ?discourse? is that you guys don?t know your history.
You?ve proved it in this retort to my Monday mailbag reply. Hearns didn?t knockout Benitez in 15. He scored a 15-round majority decision in a 154-pound title bout. (Leonard stopped Benitez in the 15th round of their welterweight title fight.)
Benitez didn?t have ?some defensive skills;? he had MAD defensive skills. He did not take too many chances when he fought. And he?s not the ?surefire reason? I think Hearns would have beat Mayweather. Tommy?s superb technique, underrated boxing skills and chilling punching power is the reason. His jab alone would have given your boy all he could have handled. Hearns was 32-0 with 30 knockouts before he fought Leonard. That wasn?t a built up record. Mayweather?s very good, he?s future first-ballot hall of famer, but he ain?t no Leonard at 147 pounds. Hearns knocks Mayweather out.
Let?s pretend Mayweather shutout Castillo, De La Hoya, and Judah. I would still believe that Hearns would?ve KO?d him. (Don?t even ask me how Floyd would have fared against Benitez at 140, 147 or 154 pounds. You don?t want to know.)
And to answer your question, no, the Castillo fight was not Mayweather?s first fight at lightweight. His first real lightweight bout was against Emanuel Augustus (AKA Burton) in October of 2000. I remember that fight well. I was ringside at Cobo Hall in Detroit (it was the day after Tyson fought Golota in Auburn Hills).
Go watch that fight on YouTube. Witness how often Augustus, an experienced and savvy boxer, but a journeyman, made Mayweather miss. Witness a guy with a 22-16-4 record (at the time) put hands on your boy. And remember, this was Floyd at his best weights, according to you. This is the version you believe could outpoint Duran, arguably the greatest lightweight in history.
You know why Mayweather had so much trouble with Augustus? (Please don?t make more excuses for Floyd and say it?s because he had been out of the ring for seven months.) The reason is that Augustus, who was selected to lose, is a crafty boxer with very good footwork. He made use of head and upper-body movement. He didn?t stand in front of Mayweather or just try to walk him down.
Mayweather, who gunned hard for the stoppage and got a late TKO to his credit, learned two things that night: One, he learned that he could get tagged back (and even get a bloody nose and busted mouth) if he really opens up on his opponents. And two, he learned that he doesn?t look so awesome when he fights boxers (especially a fellow brotha who has an African-American boxing style.)
Ask yourself this, Wiley: How many pure boxers has Mayweather fought? How many crafty ring generals did he fight when he was coming up? How many world-class fighters with good footwork/lateral movement has Mayweather fought, even when he was in his supposed prime weights of 130 and 135? (This is why I bring up guys like Casamayor and Freitas.)
And I know I?m probably opening up a big ole can of worms with his next question, but I?m gonna go ahead and drop it since I?ve heard the same question directed at Pacquiao (and basically any high-profile European fighter with a glossy record): How many African-American fighters has Mayweather fought?
He boasts that 43 have tried, 43 (42 really since he fought Castillo twice) have failed. How many were world-class black fighters? How many were world-class African Americans in their prime? (This is why I bring up Stevie Johnston.)
Whitaker, who you bring up a lot and like to compare Mayweather to, faced his share of slick or crafty African-American fighters (including Buddy McGirt, Floyd?s uncle Roger, Freddie Pendleton, Anthony Jones, and Harold Brazier). Hell, so did his rival Julio Cesar Chavez! That?s what made Chavez great. He fought the baddest brothas around at the time (Whitaker, Roger Mayweather, Rocky Lockridge, Meldrick Taylor, and Lonnie Smith) and he didn?t shy away from slick, crafty or mobile boxers.
Leonard and Hearns fought each other (and Marvin Hagler, Duran and Benitez). ?Nuff said.
You say you ?only deal in the present,? but if that was true you wouldn?t have given me your opinion on how Mayweather would have fared against Hearns and Duran.
There?s nothing wrong with mythical matchups. I LOVE ?em! And I don?t mind at all if someone sees ?em different from the way I do ? even if they lean toward Floyd Mayweather ? provided they?ve done their homework. I don?t believe you have. I don?t think you?ve really analyzed the careers of the men you think Floyd can best and I don?t think you?ve looked closely enough at Mayweather?s body of work.
