MARTINEZ CARVES OUT A LEGACY
Wasup dude? Can’t say anything bad about Sergio Martinez’ performance. You know I have been critical of Larry Merchant in the past and again I have to say that I thought he was off base by intimating that Martinez wasn’t living up to his P4P ranking by not getting rid of Matthew Macklin sooner. Dude, everybody isn’t freakin Arturo Gatti!! (RIP)
I thought that Martinez took his time, figured this dude out and then ended him. Just what a real boxer is supposed to do. Sorry Doug, I know you have mad respect for the old curmudgeon but I’m looking forward to the day he retires. I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.
I thought Edwin Rodriguez-Don George should have been a ShoBox fight. It was a cool scrap though. I thought that Kendal Holt-Tim Coleman was going to be a better fight but I guess all one has to do is dig a couple of shots to Coleman’s body and it?s a wrap!
Looking forward to Erik Morales-Danny Garcia even though I wish it was Morales-Marquez. I think that would be off the charts. Also, James Kirkland-Carlos Molina may be a trap fight for James. I know he bested Alfredo Angulo but Carlos has a toughness all his own and has subtleties to his game that Angulo never had. Looking forward to this one as well.
Two mythical matchups and I’m out:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson vs Bernard Hopkins (the one that fought Tito)
2. Wolverine vs Batman
Holla back! ? Fleetwood
Great to hear from you, as always, Fleet. I?ll start at the top.
I?m glad there are real fans out there who appreciated Martinez?s performance as I did. If one went by Twitter comments during the first half of the bout, HBO?s main event was a boring exhibit featuring an over-the-hill and overrated champion getting his ass handed to him by a rank journeyman. I didn?t see that fight. I saw legit top-five middleweight contender box the fight of the life and compete with an elite fighter, who took his measure, stepped to him in the late rounds and then took him out in the 11th round of a decent fight.
I still enjoy Merchant?s commentary and I always look forward to HBO Championship Boxing shows that feature the broadcast legend, but I thought he was WAY off on Saturday. He was needlessly impatient with Martinez, while giving Macklin too much credit. Merchant?s criticism irked me, but it didn?t bother me so much that it ruined my viewing experience. I should note that most of the fan and boxing industry comments (from ringside and couchside) that I read on Twitter echoed his thoughts, and I agreed with some of his comments, such as Martinez throwing only one power shot at a time.
I had no problem with Rodriguez-George being an opening bout on HCB, however, I was disappointed in the lack of action it produced. I thought George would bring more heat and E-Rod would box less than he did. But George was a little to patient and Rodriguez boxed better than I?ve seen from him. I think George needed to go from broke after the fifth or sixth round and Rodriguez needed to either apply a little pressure or drop more combination down the stretch. Oh well, congrats to E-Rod, who is close to developing into a real top-10 contender.
Holt-Coleman disappointed but that was due to Coleman. I think this week?s Friday Night Fights main event, between Antwone Smith and Robert Garcia, will be better and I believe the FNF March 30 headliner ? Hank Lundy vs. Dannie Williams ? will be the best fight of that weekend.
Morales-Garcia is an interesting fight. We know El Terrible is a legendary warrior who still has some fight left in him, but seeing that he didn?t quite get it done against Marcos Maidana and had a tough time with unheralded Pablo Cano it?s hard to figure how he?ll fair against Garcia, a strong boxer-puncher who is 12 years younger. It?s also difficult to tell how good Garcia is. The best guy he?s faced, Kendall Holt, didn?t really commit to fighting. Garcia was only slightly more committed to letting his hands go in that forgettable bout. Can the version of Garcia that outpointed Holt beat Morales? I don?t think so. (I know the version that fought Nate Campbell will lose to the Mexican badass.) But the young man has to be motivated for his first shot at major title, so I?m expecting to see the best possible version of Garcia step through those ropes on Saturday.
I agree that Kirkland has a tough assignment in Molina, who is crafty, durable and coming off a banner year. The Chicagoan can land that sneaky right cross of his and he?s got the discipline to hold his form and pace himself against Kirkland, which could befuddle the southpaw hurricane. Kirkland?s going to have to be smart about his offense, but still apply a lot of pressure (and a mean body attack) to break down Molina.
Your mythical matchups (good ones!):
Prime Robinson beats prime Hopkins (which was the 35-year-old vet that schooled Tito) on points in a tactical battle. Hopkins size and technique will trouble Robinson at times, but Sugar Ray?s decided edge in speed, timing, footwork and power will produce a couple of knockdowns that seal the deal for the G.O.A.T.
Wolverine vs. Batman? Damn, despite being a bona-fide comic book nerd, I?ve never thought about this matchup. I guess it?s because they belong to different companies (Logan?s with Marvel, while the Dark Knight is with D.C.), which significantly lessens their chance of actually meeting ? kind of like real life boxers who fight under the Top Rank and Golden Boy promotional banners.
I gotta go with Batman, who would find a way to almost kill the merry mutant. Wolvie?s healing factor, adamantium-laced skeleton and claws, plus more than a 100 years of combat experience make it all but impossible for a homo sapien to beat him, but Bruce Wayne is cold, calculating mother___er. In his own way, he?s crazier than Wolverine. He?s certainly more focused and obsessed, and I think he?s smarter. (I wish there odds on comic book fights ? my guess is Wolverine?s mutant powers and popularity with Generation X ? pun intended ? would make him a decided favorite.)
FOUR QUESTIONS
Dougie:
Hey bro, again nice call on a big fight. Martinez and Macklin delivered. Got a few questions arising out of the fight.
1) Is it me or did Sergio vastly increase his chance of landing a November fight with Mayweather?
I’m personally over the idea of Mayweather-Pacquaio, but I would guess that Floyd was watching this fight at home and thinking, I could execute Macklin’s plan and meet Martinez speed for speed and win, then people would acknowledge my greatness… especially if the HBO people were right about Martinez talking an 80-20 split. I’d pay to see that fight.
2) I’d love to hear your score at home. I had Martinez up by a round going into the 11th. Is it just me or is the Argentine marvel going to not get the benefit of the doubt on the scorecards because of the way he fights?
My wife is a huge Martinez fan. (What’s not to like? Good looking guy, socially conscious with causes that would get female rooters). She kept asking me why the HBO guys were so down on Martinez. I said that it was a) a perception issue, Macklin is more of a plodder, so seeing him fight on relatively even terms made it seem like maybe he was winning, and b) that Martinez’s style is unorthodox enough that judges don’t give him the credit he deserves because he’s often retreating almost as quickly as he engages.
3) My opinion, Martinez is good enough, and fought enough as the linear champ to put a little perspective in. Where does he stack up, in your opinion against the best recent (30 years) middleweight champs?
Since we both love this stuff:
Hagler v. Martinez? (I think Hagler by mid round KO-stoppage)
Hopkins v. Martinez? (Hopkins by close UD)
Trinidad v. Martinez? (I think Martinez wins late KO against the middleweight version of Tito)
4) Which leads to the money question… If Martinez lands the Mayweather fight, how do you see it going? I’m going to wait to see how Money carries the 154 against Cotto, but I think given that Maravila came in at 158, a fight could get done at 154 for November.
Peace. ? Steve in ND
1) I?d rather see Mayweather-Martinez than Mayweather-Pacquiao. I still view Mayweather-Pacquiao as a competitive fight, but at this stage of both star?s careers, I think the Filipino icon has less of a chance to beat Mayweather than Martinez. Pacquiao?s body has settled in at welterweight. He?s still a handful for any 147 pounder, but he doesn?t bring the pace and workrate of a junior lightweight as he did when he first stepped up to 140 and 147 pounds in 2009. Had Mayweather and Pacquiao fought in 2010, I would have favored the Pac-Monster. I have less faith in him now. I see him as the 1987 version of Marvin Hagler against Sugar Ray Leonard if he ever faces Mayweather (which is doubtful thanks to their giant egos). So let?s beat the drums for Mayweather-Martinez!
2) I thought Martinez-Macklin was competitive, but I didn?t see the razor-thin contest that you and HBO?s crew (Harold Lederman and Larry Merchant) saw. I thought Martinez was in control of most of the fight and only scored rounds three, six and seven for Macklin (and I scored the seventh 10-9 for Macklin because I thought Martinez was winning the round before the off-balance/trip knockdown). I knew once Martinez made the move to step up his pressure and aggression that Macklin would get beat up and stopped. That was Maravilla?s plan all along. I agree that his somewhat erratic style costs him close rounds, but it really doesn?t matter how anybody scores his fights because he likes to close the show and he?s got enough power in that accurate left hand of his to break down and knockout anyone.
3) I agree with all three outcomes to your mythical middleweight matchups (although I can see Martinez making it to the distance against Hagler, who was a methodical and somewhat plodding technician, even in a 15-round bout).
4) I?d prefer Martinez-Mayweather at 154 rather than 150. It?s fine if Mayweather were to make Martinez come down to 150 (that?s what the middleweight champ and his promoter proposed), but if he did, he would need to stop criticizing Pacquiao for making his opponents fight at catchweights. Anyway, if the fight were to be at 154, Martinez would be a strong favorite in my view. At 150, I wouldn?t be as sure in my pick (seeing that Martinez hasn?t fought below 154 pounds in seven years). Getting that low in weight could wipe him out, but I would still favor Martinez. I?ve only seen Mayweather fight above 147 pounds once, and while I thought he took Oscar De La Hoya to school, I don?t believe he looked particularly formidable against the 2007 version of the Golden Boy, who didn?t have the stamina to fight past seven rounds. We all know Maravilla has great stamina AND he retains his power late. Beyond physical attributes, I think he?s very smart and just as competitive as Mayweather.
MARTINEZ KNOCKED DOWN?
Dear Dougie,
Love the mailbags – I look forward to them every week. Two things on the Martinez fight:
1. In the early rounds, when Martinez almost knocked Macklin down in the early ropes, it appeared Macklin only stayed up because he hit the ropes. I thought when only the ropes kept a fighter from touching canvas it counted as a knockdown. Am I wrong about this? If not, am I wrong to think it applied in this situation?
2. I thought the HBO guys were pretty hard on Martinez. It appears from the last few fights that he is a slow starter who takes his time and doesn’t like to get hit. Yet he has finished each of the fights in knockouts. So maybe we shouldn’t say he is looking bad when he isn’t visibly dominating early on, since he clearly is wearing down his opponents and finishing them late. Cheers. ? Brandon
Thanks for the nice words about the mailbag, Brandon.
1. I think it could have been ruled a knockdown when Macklin reeled into the ropes. He wasn?t hurt, but he did get clipped and was knocked off balance into the ropes, which held him up ? which means it could have been ruled a ?technical knockdown.? But that?s not an automatic ruling, it?s up to the referee?s discretion. Eddie Cotton, a veteran official who is usually very solid, opted not to make that call and I was fine with that.
2. Once again, I agree with you. I thought it was ridiculous for Merchant to expect Martinez to blowout such a strong and rugged fighter who?s never been stopped early (and was arguably unbeaten at middleweight). Martinez always begins his fights by moving in and out and around his opponent, working a hard jab from a distance, while assessing his opponent?s rhythm, style, weaknesses, etc. It?s what a veteran fighter does. Why compare Martinez to Roy Jones Jr.? He?s a good athlete but not a super-talent as the prime Jones was at 160 and 168 pounds. Martinez is a strong, smart and well-conditioned fighter who has a similar approach to boxing as Marvin Hagler and Bernard Hopkins ? he systematically breaks his opponents down. However, he?s not the technician those two great middleweight champs were. Martinez uses more of a mobile, athletic style to pick his foes apart (which I guess is why some folks compare him to Jones). Now that I think about it, the same criticisms I?ve heard about Martinez after the Barker and Macklin fights were also heaped on Hopkins and Hagler after they took they defended their titles against lesser-known middleweight contenders. Hagler and Hopkins were also called ?overrated,? ?ordinary,? and ?old? until they were able to get lighter-weight super stars to step up and fight them (Marvin needed Roberto Duran and Tommy Hearns; B-Hop needed Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya). I think folks who criticize Martinez (and DiBella) for wanting smaller guys like Cotto and Mayweather forget that middleweight champs throughout history often made their names (or their biggest paydays) fighting the ?lighter-weight stars? of their eras.
THE BRITS
Hello Doug,
I thought I’d drop you a line and pick your brains as I respect your view and often wonder how you feel about certain things.
Being a patriotic Brit I hope you don’t mind if I focus on ‘my boys’?!
Firstly, I should commend Matthew Macklin on a gallant effort against Martinez. I thought he got his tactics right and until the ‘trip up knock down’ late on he was in the fight. Unfortunately, Sergio woke up and Mack the Knife looked out of his depth. It wasn’t a huge surprise to anyone that he lost, and an honourable defeat was realistically the best he could hope for. No disrespect to Macklin, I just believe ?Maravilla? could’ve turned it on at any time and blown him away. Having lost to the top two guys, does Macklin gain or lose credibility in the division?
My favourite performance of the night was from Kell Brook, who schooled Matthew Hatton for 12 rounds. I’ve long admired his skills and think he is destined for big things. Do you think he would be more highly rated, or further along in his career, if he was American? Because there seems to be a reluctance to recognise him as a true contender across the pond, despite his silky skills and marketable appearance/personality. Does the Hatton performance make a difference, as Brook arguably dominated him more than Alvarez (and indeed Hatton said Brook caused him more problems)? Does he deserve a fight against the top welterweights (outside the BIG two) and how would he get on?
And finally, a word on the Khan-Peterson rematch. It’s difficult, even for a patriot like me, to want Khan to win this fight. After the way he behaved after the first fight I have been forced to back the more gentlemanly Peterson, who has proved that class has nothing to do with where you come from. Do you think Peterson was wrong to take the rematch, because I reckon if Khan wins another close one, the third fight would NEVER happen?
That’s all from me. Thanks for your time, keep up the good work! ? Ryan, UK
Thanks for the kind words, Ryan, and thanks for writing in.
Regarding Macklin, I was not only expecting him to challenge Martinez in his usual pressure-fighting mode, I was looking forward to it! However, I agree that the tactics he chose were the right ones to unseat the middleweight champ, and I was impressed with his skill level. He?s a better/smarter boxer than I thought he was. I don?t think Macklin lost any credibility on Saturday. I think he gained a lot of fans in the U.S. with his strong showing. I?m not sure if he enhanced his current status/middleweight ranking with the loss, but I don?t think he?ll drop much. I think he remains a solid top-10 contender, one who is deserving of a shot at any of the alphabet beltholders.
I don?t view his loss to Sturm as setback because I thought he won the fight, and I don?t believe Martinez could have blown him out at any time. Maravilla knew that he had to break Macklin down and make a move when the Brit had petered out a bit.
Regarding Brook, I know I don?t speak for all Americans (fans or boxing writers) but I?ve recognized his talent and potential for quite some time (and I should note that he?s THE RING?s No. 6-rated welterweight). I don?t think his lack of support in the U.S. has much to do with him not being American; I think it has more to do with his lack of TV exposure in the U.S. If his last three or four fights were on HBO, Showtime or ESPN, I think American fans would be clamoring to see the Sheffield native take on fellow young 147-pound contenders, such as Victor Ortiz, Andre Berto, and Mike Jones.
I agree that all the bellyaching about hometown officiating, the scorecards of WBA officials and ?Mystery Men? following what was a good, close fight makes it hard for a lot of fans to root for Khan. Even folks who thought he won (as I did) and believed the referee was too involved were turned off by the British star?s sour grapes.
He (and Golden Boy Promotions) should have taken the high road, accepted a close defeat and pressed for the rematch on the grounds that the first fight was very entertaining and a return bout might be just as good ? or even better. I think Peterson and most fans would have agreed. But making such a loud federal case about everything just pisses folks off (and let?s be honest, it doesn?t take much to get boxing fans bitching).
I don?t think Peterson was wrong to take the rematch. It?s a good matchup, a fight he can win, and he got a good deal from GBP. It?s also what real fighters do; they want to erase any doubts the public might have about them. Peterson is a real fighter.
MARTINEZ IS NO. 1 PFP
Hi Doug,
Where was your mailbag on Friday? Missed it. Your comments on one thought:
I think Sergio Martinez should be No. 1 p4p. Reason: He is ducking nobody, taking on everybody at any given place and beating them in convincing fashion. Now he is calling out Mayweather at 150 (according to Lou DiBella) at a 20:80 share. What else can a man do to convince people?? Matthias, Germany
Not much else, Matthias. All Martinez and DiBella can do is wait for Mayweather to take the bait in late 2012 (if the undefeated American beats Cotto and the ultra-super-mega-bout with PacMan fails to come off again).
I agree that Martinez is an elite fighter. Paul Williams was in everyone?s pound-for-pound rankings when Martinez first fought him (and many thought he deserved to win that terrific fight). He was the first middleweight to beat reigning 160-pound champ Kelly Pavlik (and it was only his second bout at the weight) and then he KO?d P-Will cold in their rematch. His stoppage of Sergei Dzinziruk was impressive given long-reigning 154-pound beltholder had never tasted defeat as a pro and had never been dropped, let alone knocked out in any fight, amateur or pro (and the rangy Ukrainian technician was an excellent amateur who won 195 of 220 bouts).
Barker and Macklin aren?t world-beaters, but they are solid middleweight contenders with underrated skill and ability. They aren?t the ?tomato cans? a lot of American fans (and scribes) are calling them. I might be in the minority (which is fine, because I?ve been one my entire life), but I enjoy watching the reigning middleweight champ defend his crown against hungry, young middleweights.
Sorry about the missing mailbag on Friday. I must be getting old because I completely forgot about it on Thursday night. I didn?t even realize that I?d forgotten until early evening on Friday. Hey, next time I have a ?senior moment? like that and you don?t see a mailbag on Monday or Friday morning PLEASE shoot me an email saying ?Wake up, Fischer!?
MAYWEATHER-COTTO WINNER
Hey Mr. Fisher,
First time writing to you, long time fan. When you disappeared for a minute in between Maxboxing and RingTV.com, I was worried about where I was gonna get my boxing fix… I am from your generation (42 years mature) although a few years older. I remember being a little pup and sitting with my uncles and mentors watching great free fights on Friday and Sat. (free! what a concept)…
About this weekend. Sergio did a great job of figuring out a bigger fighter who’s focus was not getting clipped with a left. He wore him down, took his heart, and feasted like a piranha when he smelled/saw blood. With that same left I might add. Any chance the winner of Mayweather-Cotto (I don’t assume it’s a walk-over for Silly Boy) gives him a shot? He is willing to come down to 150 for Fitty’s butt boy… Or if Cotto wins does he try to beat a top 3 PFP’er two times in a row and cement a stronger legacy than Tito?
Keep up the great work! Peace to you and your… ? Marcos
?Fitty?s butt boy?? Good Lord. No you didn?t, Marcos. But, yeah, you did, and you shouldn?t have. Not to say I haven?t wondered about that relationship, as others have (hip-hop folks more so than boxing people), but there?s about as much evidence that that they?re ?a couple? than there is evidence that Manny Pacquiao is using PEDs. Just because Mayweather likes to make baseless allegations doesn?t mean everyone else should stoop to his level and cast aspersions without proof.
Come on, man, if you?re from my generation (and I turn 42 in May, by the way), you should know better. OK, time to hop off the ole P.C. soap box.
I think it?s a longshot that the winner of Mayweather-Cotto takes on Martinez. Boxing writers, hardcore fans and armchair Eddie Futches of the Twitterverse might view a fading 37-year-old veteran in Martinez, but I betcha Floyd and Miguel see an athletic middleweight champ with the strength, power and smarts to systematically breakdown rugged 160-pound contenders.
If Mayweather or Cotto wins their May 5 fight via unexpected blowout, perhaps they?ll be on such a high that they?ll have the confidence to face Maravilla. But I don?t think Mayweather-Cotto will be a blowout for either fighter, and even if one of them wins in one-sided fashion I think both men are more about their business than their legacies at this stage of their hall-of-fame careers. Martinez vs. Mayweather or Cotto is great for boxing nerds like you and I to dream about, but not for the naturally smaller fighters, who can make more money fighting a popular (and very beatable young-?un) like Saul Alvarez.
I said this in response to the previous email, but I?ll repeat it. I enjoy watching Martinez do his thing against strong middleweight prospects/contenders. I know he can still make 154 pounds (although I?ve seen him effectively carry 170 pounds in sparring sessions prior to the Dzinziruk fight), but the fact that his challengers are bigger/heavier is part of what makes the fights interesting.
I think Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. will eventually fight Martinez (and a lot of fans already give the kid a shot). It won?t happen this year, but when it does ? probably next year ? it will be a big fight. If Peter ?Kid Chocolate? Quillin looks good against Winky Wright and gets another victory under his belt, I?d like to see him take on Martinez. And like a lot of hardcore heads, I wanna see how undefeated beltholders Gennady Golovkin and Dmitry Pirog do against the champ once they get some U.S. TV exposure (which should happen this year).
