In a second instalment of ATE this week, the ‘Barrera fears Pac-Man’ debate rages on, we talk British fighters, enquire whether James Toney is for real and assess whether Hatton has a hope against Mayweather.
***** TODAY’S FIGHTERS ARE OVER-RATED
First Name: Thor Last Name: Wallbridge Country: Australia Your Question: P4P Myth: It seems to me that many fighters lauded as the greatest of their time were never truly tested by other great opponents. Take Floyd Mayweather for instance. Are Castillo, Corales, and Hernandez anywhere near Leonard, Hearns, and Duran? And what about Bernard Hopkins. Was he not given a hard time by Antwun Echols whom the lowly Anthony Mundine easily outpointed? And what about Roy Jones Jnr. What would’ve Evander Holyfield at Cruiserweight have done to him? Where is the credibility for boxing? Four ‘champions’ in a division. I’m losing interest!
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Hi Thor. I do see your point to a certain degree. However, it is not the fault of Roy Jones or Floyd Mayweather that there was/is a shortage of fighters equal to them in ability. We were lucky that such great fighters such as Leonard, Hearns, Duran and Hagler all fought in the same era, thus allowing all of them to build their legendry status by fighting each other in super fights. Floyd and Jones have fought pretty much all the best opposition available to them over the years. Don’t forget Roy Jones handily beat both James Toney and Bernard Hopkins and look what they both went on to achieve?
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Thor, please name me another quartet in boxing history who were all as talented as Sugar Ray, Duran, Hagler and Hearns. Mayweather has fought some very, very good fighters and beaten them with ease. That makes him No.1 today, and we’ll have to wait until the end of his career for a true reading of how he compares to the Fab Four you mention.
I agree that Hopkins is/was totally overrated but asking what a cruiserweight Evander Holyfield would have done to Roy Jones (who was still an amateur during that era) is as redundant as asking what Ben Cohen would do in a three-way with Jessica Alba and Teri Hatcher. Just pointless speculation as it is never gonna happen.
As for the different titles, yeah, it is daft but it is the same in most sports. Who is the champion at 100m sprints? The world record holder, the Olympic Champ, the World Champ or the guy who is in form right now?
And, honestly, if you really are losing interest in boxing with all the great fights which took place last year and the fights already lined up for 2006 then perhaps it is time you took up knitting.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: Don’t lose interest just yet Thor! Castillo and Corrales can certainly be mentioned alongside Leonard, Hearns and Duran, perhaps not quite as equals, but they are at least cut from the same cloth. I am convinced that Castillo is perhaps one of the least heralded great fighters of this era. That Mayweather comprehensively out boxed both of them tells you just how good he is. Mayweather hasn’t has a defining fight as yet, but nothing would indicate that is unwilling to test himself. If he fights a Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto or Kostya Tzyu, he will certainly be rated alongside the fighters you mention.
Hopkins has fought Roy Jones Jnr, Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya (and Jermain Taylor, although it is too early to tell how good he will be). Those are also names not to be sniffed at.
Let us not forget that Roy Jones Jr fought James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, John Ruiz, Virgil Hill, Antonio Tarver, and Glen Johnson. Would he have beaten a prime Evander Holyfield at Cruiserweight? I believe the Roy Jones of 94′-99′ would have given any fighter of any era in any weight category some serious problems. The guy was absolutely sublime. Many of the fighters Jones beat also went on to become champions themselves, something Jones has rarely been given credit for (Clinton Woods, Virgil Hill, Julio Gonzales, for example).
It is usual to hark back to past eras, but as Ant is always saying, there have been an unprecedented amount of competitive match ups recently, with many fighters facing the best of their divisions. However, I do agree, 4 champions in each division is pretty ridiculous.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: The question is, how can a boxer become a true great of the sport if there is no other ‘great boxers’ for him to beat? In beating a boxer who may be considered a great, does it lesser the reputation of the boxer who has been beaten to being sub-great? Take for instance Muhammad Ali, universally acknowledged as one of the true greats of the sport. His wins over Frazier and Foreman were one of the reasons for this. Great fighters need to be able to beat other great fighters to ensure their legacy. Has Mayweather done this? Not yet. He definitely needs to face Hatton. But if he beats Hatton, does that lessen the esteem in which Hatton is held? So many tough questions, which in many ways can only be answered after boxers have completed their careers and then a thorough analysis can be made. Look at Roy Jones Jr now. During his prime, many, many fans and critics were calling him one of the all time greats. What they say now? While Hopkins’ wins over Trinidad and De La Hoya strand out on his record, you have to also acknowledge his longevity and dominance over many years. Where the boxers he beat always on an elite level? No, but he beat everyone there was to be beat after he lost to Jones Jr. People will hold against him the losses to Taylor, but he was at the very end of his career. Echols was not the same boxer when he faced Mundine. Antwun was shot on more than one level. As you can see Thor, pound for pound is a complex question. You make a valid point. While Mayweather is considered the best right now, it doesn’t mean he will be held in the same esteem at the end of his career. Boxing is still, in my opinion, the best and truest sport there is. Stick with it. You just have to cut through the gloom and keep following for the times that come around when you are out of your chair cheering like no other sport can make you do.
***** WHAT TITLES WILL BE ON THE LINE?
First Name : Elyas Last Name : Khaliqi Country : Australia Your Question : Mayweather will take care of business with Judah. Hatton will take care of his side of the deal with Baldomir. Then WBC welterweight champion Floyd Mayweather Jr versus IBF welterweight, IBF Junior Welterweight and WBA junior welterweight champion of the world Ricky Hatton. Guys I have very good inside news from a friend of mine who is close to the Hatton camp that this is almost certain for later this year , should both fighters pull through their respective bouts unscathed. The Pretty Boy – Hitman bout is already on top of everyone’s wish list for fights to be made ASAP….. but the fact that it will be to unify the WBC and IBF welter belts gives the fight that much more prestige and will make it a real super title fight…. which means more coverage, more exposure, more bums on seats and more money for the fighters and their camps. I would like to ask you fellas wether it would be possible for Hatton and Mayweather to fight for the WBC and IBF belts at welter and also Hatton’s belts at junior welter if they both weigh in at the 140 pound limit? This would be a first would it not and would really be a spectacle if the fighters would agree to such a fight and so much at stake! This boxing fan thinks Mayweather just has a few too many tricks up his sleeve for the Hitman but it will be awesome either way.
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: It is possible for Hatton and Mayweather to fight for all four belts as long as both fighters pay the agreed sanctioning fees and weigh no more than 140lbs. Don’t if you remember but Sugar Ray Leonard and Donnie Lalonde fought for the WBC light-heavyweight title and the vacant WBC super-middleweight crown in November 1988. Leonard scaled 165lbs and Lalonde 167lbs. Also Henry Armstrong weighed 135lbs when he knocked out Lew Feldman(134) in one round to regain the world welterweight title and claim the world lightweight title in 1939. So no, it is not a unique situation fighting for two world titles at two different weights. In fact Armstrong’s feat was far more incredible as in those days there were just eight champions and weight division as opposed to the 150 champions and 17 divisions of today.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Boxing has taught us that there is no such thing as a guarantee, but Mayweather and Hatton meeting in the ring will become a necessity if they both keep winning. The world title belts are becoming less and less important these days. The many dubious goings on regarding them are seeing to that. They can only fight for the titles in one weight class. But to me, Hatton is the undisputed world champion at 140lbs right now, until someone else beats him.
***** PAC-MAN WILL GET BEAT BY MAB
First Name : Steven Last Name : Kilpatrick Country : United Kingdom Your Question : Hi there, I have to say the way MAB is being dismissed on this website as regards to a 2nd fight with the Pac-Man is truly unjust. MAB is a modern-day legend who seems to rise to the occasion when adversity is facing him head-on. Furthermore he is the People’s Champion who never makes excuses for his defeats and great champions lose!! I have to say if a rematch happens I fancy Marco to upset Las Vegas odds and avenge his defeat first time round. We love you MAB…the 1st fight with Morales is the best fight I have ever seen…and yes, I did watch Coralles v Castillo!!! I think everyone forgets JMM gave Pacquiao a boxing lesson and the 1st clash with Morales was an easier victory than some suggested.
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: I know what you are saying, Steven but I’ll take whatever beat you care to wager than Pac-Man beats Barrera if they have a rematch.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: You make some good points Steven. However, I think that Pacquiao is hitting his peak right now, and the awesome mix of speed, power and unorthodoxy will simply be too much for Barrera. The Mexican warrior looks to pick his punches these days, waiting to capitalize on his opponent’s errors after they throw punches. I think that Manny can just get in and out too quickly for Barrera to find his rhythm.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: You’ll get no dismissing of Barrera here Steven. I have written in ATE a few times of late that the reason I want to see Pacquiao-Barrera II is to see what will happen. I don’t know for sure that Barrera is finished or Pacman has his number. But as the astute Patrick Kehoe has been pointing out for quite a while, it is getting further and further away from the night Barrera lost to Manny and we seem to be getting no closer to a rematch.
***** ENGLISH BOXERS NEED MORE ‘DEVIL’
First Name : Alex Last Name : Pacey Country : Australia Your Question : As an Englishman and massive boxing fan I want to know one thing, why can’t we produce a nasty ‘out for himself’ kind of fighter. The Yanks seem to produce plenty – you know, guys who win the belt and then take on whomever they feel will keep them the belt for a while and then maybe a few years down the line have another defining fight. It’s not that I like these guys you understanding but at least they stay at the top of the pile for a while. We get the ‘valiant loser type’ all blood and thunder taking on the best out there and almost doing it. Hatton is the real reason I bring this up, now he’s champ he’s gagging to get in there with Mayweather a fight that he will give everything in and probably get cut to ribbons by laser guided punches – I love the guy but please Ricky batter Gatti and a few others first!!!
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Hi Alex. I think the real reason the American take on all-comers is because HBO and Showtime demand it. They have a say in who fights who on their networks and pay accordingly. I’m pleased to say that Sky Sports in England are now adopting the same approach, and not before time. You will find that boxers will fight anyone if the money is right.
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: There’s only about 300 active boxers in the UK and only about 12 of those are anywhere near world class. Maths plays a part but I think the UK consistently does well at world level considering those odds.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: If only Audley Harrison was made of sterner stuff! Seriously though, I think it is to England’s credit that we do not produce fighters like that all of the time. Prince Naseem was doing it for a while, and you could make an argument that Joe Calzaghe has been doing it recently (although he is Welsh). I don’t think Hatton will get cut to ribbons by Mayweather either, Alex. Hatton’s relentless attacking style will give Mayweather fits, and it could be a very close fight. I agree though, I think Hatton should fight Gatti, and possibly one more American before he steps in there with Mayweather.
***** WHERE IS CORY?
First Name : Rory Last Name : Mc Govern Country : Ireland Your Question : Is Cory Spinks coming back? It has been so quiet regarding his plans.
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: It is interesting, we get more ‘when is he coming back’ emails about Cory Spinks than any other fighter. Just goes to show that there is a percentage of fans who do want to see pure boxing talent and not just big power-punches. I’ve not been able to reach Cory since Christmas, but to the best of my knowledge he is still looking around for the best promotional deal. He’d better hurry up, though.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Cory will be back soon. He is just working out some issues with his promoter Don King. He has been training and is looking forward to his return to the ring.
***** BARRERA _IS_ SCARED OF PAC-MAN!
First Name : Emmanuel Last Name : Mallari, Jr. Country : Saudi Arabia Your Question : Patrick, et al are all in one saying that Barrera is running away from PacMan. Very true. Barrera, before the Morales-Pacquiao II stated that he will challenge the winner of The Battle. Unfortunately and after seeing how Manny brutalized and decked Morales not once but twice, made a sudden change of heart. Instead, he will face Chavez. I am under the impression that if Barrera is a proud champion as others say, he should have issued a challenge to Manny right after he loses to him to avenge his defeat. How long was it now? In The Battle, Barrera lost all of his last purse when he bet in favour of Morales. Why is that? I don’t know if you will agree with me but Barrera wants someone to do the job of beating Manny….that’s why.And now wants to get it back through Chavez. If he wins, he will have all the reasons to duck Manny again or perhaps will tell Manny to go up at 135 and he’ll fight him at that weight. What do you think guys?
Ben Cohen Answers: I think you are right about a few things Salam. No one has beaten Barrera like the Pac Man did, and after seeing him batter Erik Morales, it is understandable that he may want to avoid the rematch. I have always been of the opinion that Barrera is a bit of a bully. He puts on extremely dominating performances against lesser opponents, but when things were not going his way against Pacquiao and Junior Jones, Barrera made all sorts of excuses, and looked for ways of getting out of the fight. I personally don’t think he wants to fight Manny again.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Emmanuel, you are right, it could well be just manoeuvring on behalf of Barrera to get an equal hand in the negotiations for Pacquiao II. He wants a belt around his waist going into the fight and wants it held at the weight that suits him. Lets see how Barrera goes against Chavez and if he does win, does he call out Manny?
***** IS TONEY FOR REAL?
First Name : Ian Last Name : Benson Country : Canada Your Question : Hi question for James Toney or yourselves ,i know the Heavy scene is a total mess right now, splintered champs politics etc Is James serious about becoming a genuine champ and accepting all the real fights that go with this or as many would suspect as he seen the weakness in the ranks as a way to make a fast Buck .I would be the first to support his efforts if he’s for real ,but would ask him if hes not to stop the carnival before the clowns perform
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Toney is for real at heavyweight, but his weight and age probably mean that he only has 18months to 2years, tops, before retirement.
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: I think James Toney is serious about fighting best heavyweights. Like everything in boxing though, show him the money?
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: Believe me, James Toney is for real. Toney was talking about fighting as a heavyweight back when he was a middleweight, and he has certainly made good on his promise. I’ve spoken to many people who know James, and they all say the guy is absolutely insane. He would fight King Kong if they made rings big enough.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: I think Toney wants to dominate, but I’m not sure that his body will let him. He has had a bad run of injuries and it wouldn’t surprise me that the excess weight his body is now being forced to carry at his advanced age is the problem. I think Toney, at his best, can beat just about any of the heavies out there today. But how many nights a year can he be at his best?
***** DOES HATTON HAVE A REAL SHOT?
First Name : Brendon Last Name : Morris Country : Australia Your Question : Hi Guys love your site 1st thing I do every morning is jump on to get my boxing fix. My question relates to Ricky Hatton and if he really has a shot a beating Mayweather Jr.
I understand Ricky had a fantastic 2005 with a major upset victory over Kostya Tszyu (biggest name of Hatton’s win list and the reason for this potential ‘superfight’), but when we look closely is Hatton really as good as he’s being made out to be? When we examine the facts Kostya was fighting in Hatton’s backyard at 2 in the morning and at the age of 38 in his 2nd fight back after an extensive layoff, all credit to Hatton & his corner for an excellent victory however in my opinion it was not the Kostya of old. Floyd definitely has a wider range of skills than Kostya and would not be facing any of the issues Kostya faced so does Ricky really have a shot? In my opinion…NO Mayweather wins this one comfortably.
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Hi Brendan. First off I think you’ll find Kostya was 35 when he fought Ricky. And secondly I think Ricky fought a focused and up for it Kostya, not a shot fighter. I did not think Ricky was going to beat Kostya but he proved me and a lot of other people wrong. I would not write Ricky off against Mayweather. Ricky is fast and very strong. Funnily enough I’m more worried about Ricky fighting Carlos Baldomir. That’s a fight that is risky and not worth a massive money fight, either.
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Hatton and Tszyu would always have given each other a torrid fight, because of their styles. Mayweather, in theory, could have an easy night at against Hatton but, in theory, Hatton is a better brawler than Castillo who some believe beat Mayweather two divisions down. I think it will be a very hard fight for both men and slightly lean towards Mayweather.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: While you make some good points Brendon, I think you are being a little unfair to Hatton. Kostya Tszyu was widely expected to knock Hatton out after putting in a chilling display of precision punching against Sharmba Mitchell. And don’t forget, Mitchell was the favorite against Tszyu. I believe that both fighters were at their peak that night, and Hatton was just the better man. I don’t think anyone beats Hatton comfortably, even an enigma like Floyd Mayweather. Hatton’s style is just an absolute nightmare for any fighter, and his skills are seriously underrated. He can make subtle adjustments in fights, and he will never, ever stop punching. Mayweather is the favorite, but not by a long way.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Hatton won me over when he beat Kostya. Going into the fight, I was unsure of Hatton’s ability, but having seen from ringside what he is capable of, I give him a very good chance of beating Mayweather. I don’t think Floyd will be comfortable at all at any time during the fight. The pressure and strength of Hatton will give anyone he faces nightmares.
***** MAXWELL NEEDS A HOUSE First Name : Gary Last Name : Morrison Country : United Kingdom Your Question : is there no promoter willing to take Patrick Maxwell under their wing its obvious there on a sure fire thing this man deserves a chance
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Gary I think you need to speak to Pat about promoters. To my knowledge he has been with a few, including Fight Academy. On the few occasions I have spoken to Pat I have always found him very personable and he can fight so not sure why he has not had his chance.
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: I like Patrick and think he’s a great talent but he changes trainers and promoters so damn often he can never get any momentum going.
