Thursday, 24 September 2026 · Philippines RSS
PhilBoxing.com The Philippine Boxing Portal
Boxing

Thoughts: Boxing vs. MMA and Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About DQs

The night of September 19 was billed as another chapter in the continuing saga of boxing versus mixed martial arts as the Floyd Mayweather-Juan Manuel Marquez pay-per-view went toe-to-toe against UFC 103. Most pundits predicted that MMA – treated by much of the mainstream media as the upstart darling of the masses – would once again trounce The Sweet Science, which is regarded as that “old guy” sport that should be shunted aside in favor of the brash, hip, new-wave sport of the future.

Despite the fact that Mayweather-Marquez reached the 1 million buy threshold and that UFC 103’s numbers haven’t been released by Dana White (though they are reportedly around 400,000), nothing has been settled as far as which sport is really “better.” Just as mediocre boxing shows have been steamrolled by top-flight MMA cards, the shoe was on the other foot this time – a rarity in recent times. While the boxing show’s undercard was considered (at least on paper) as one of the best in recent years most UFC observers thought their lineup was nowhere near the quality of past efforts. Therefore it doesn’t serve much purpose for boxing to do an end-zone dance now as it was for White to do the same when his company prevailed.

To his credit, White gave credit.

“Bottom line, we did a good number and we still got our [butts] kicked,” a gracious White told Yahoo.com. “What they did was phenomenal and I’m happy for them. We honestly thought we’d do our number and that if they knocked it out of the park, they’d do around 650,000. We are ecstatic with the number we did, but they did a huge, huge number.” The only way for the “argument,” such as it is, to be properly gauged is for each sport to produce the best top-to-bottom card possible, market them with the same amount of aggression and fervor, schedule them on the same night and have at it.

But I don’t think that will happen. Nor should it.

First, it doesn’t make business sense. Many boxing fans also like to watch MMA and more than a few MMA followers enjoy boxing as well. The name of the game – beyond the war of words – is to make the most money possible, especially with high-level cards that require a huge monetary outlay. So why would the sports’ respective event promoters want to risk cutting into their bottom lines just to stick it to the other guy?

Also, with high-end PPVs costing $50 and more, few fans can afford to nearly double their monthly bills in a single night, especially in this tough economy. But that’s what almost happened here and boxing won this round simply because its main event was viewed to be more prestigious and the better buy.

Another reason is because it is so much more difficult for boxing promoters to piece together a mega-card like we saw with “Revenge: The Rematches” in 1994 topped by Julio Cesar Chavez-Frankie Randall II. Sadly for boxing fans, those days are far in the rear view mirror and here’s why. First, there is the high asking price for fighters’ services. Can you imagine what a card involving today’s equivalent of Chavez-Randall II, Azumah Nelson-Jesse James Leija II, Gerald McClellan-Julian Jackson II, Terry Norris-Simon Brown II and Ricardo Lopez-Kermin Guardia would cost now in terms of purses? For the promoter to turn a profit, the PPV asking price would probably be around $99.95 and no card is worth that much. Thus, fights of similar magnitude today would serve as four separate main events while Lopez-Guardia would be the co-feature for Chavez-Randall II or be its own main event somewhere else. Second, no single promoter has a monopoly on the top fighters like Don King had on the aforementioned card. Supercards today can only be made if, for example, Top Rank and Golden Boy determine that more money can be made working together rather than separately – and that circumstance happens maybe once every couple of years. Like it or not, that’s the business of boxing these days.

Conversely, since UFC has its fighters under a single promotional umbrella – and because they can pay their top fighters far less than the eight figures top boxers command – it is much easier to assemble quality cards from top to bottom. That’s why we’ve seen more than 100 UFC pay-per-views – and counting. MMA fans have gotten accustomed to a certain quality standard and a particular rhythm as far as when their premium events are scheduled – one a month, every month.

Boxing can learn much from UFC’s brilliant business model and marketing strategy by including programming on every available television platform while also expanding their influence to video games, clothing lines and appearances on shows that, on the surface, have nothing to do with their sport. For example, MMA star Matt Hughes appeared on a show called “Journal of the American Trophy Hunter” on the Sportsman Channel this past Thursday because he happens to be an avid outdoorsman. His appearance served two purposes: First, Hughes presented a side of himself outside the octogon to non-MMA fans and second, stirring interest in his employer’s brand.

Wouldn’t it be interesting if Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao – both of whom play basketball in their spare time – would have their management teams arrange a segment on an NBA pre-game show somewhere down the road? One idea would be to have them stage a charity game – with each on opposite teams of course – to help build up a potential fight or at least implant the idea in fans’ minds. The more boxing’s stars can cross over to broadcasts involving the “major” sports, the better. The point is, MMA has thrived on its ability to attract younger fans with less disposable income by making itself accessible, projecting a “cool” image in a wide variety of settings and following through with exciting and well-matched contests on a consistent basis. At the same time boxing, in the quest to maximize dollars from an increasingly aging audience, has created the very vacuum that MMA seized upon by failing to market its rising superstars to a wider, more youthful audience.

One way fighters used to drum up interest between fights was to stage exhibitions, either to help out small shows by boosting the live gate or raise money for worthy causes. Muhammad Ali was one of the all-time champs in this regard as he spent his time between fights jetting around the world to keep his name on everyone’s lips instead of curling up in his cocoon like many of today’s fighters do. Even if the modern-day stars actually do this, we don’t hear anything about it – and that’s probably because of the negative vicious cycle boxing has found itself in for the past couple of decades in terms of publicity and accessibility.

As someone who was in the newspaper business for 20 years, I know that if sports editors don’t perceive something to be news, they won’t cover it because their resources are already spread too thin. I believe boxing’s profile began slipping in the early 1990s because (1) its profile on free network TV began eroding and (2) most of the major shows end far too late for the results to be printed in the Sunday morning papers on the East Coast. It would help greatly if PPV cards staged in the East would begin at 7 p.m. instead of 9. If the NFL can move up the starting times of its marquee games on Sunday and Monday nights, why can’t boxing do the same? Then again, the newspaper business these days may be too far gone for that to matter anymore, but as long as we still have them why not optimize the opportunity?

Now let’s get back to the subject brought up earlier: If all things were equal, which sport would prevail in a head-to-head showdown? As someone who believes boxing and MMA can and should see themselves as healthy competitors instead of enemies, I nevertheless believe that boxing would come out on top in a straight-up, apples-to-apples situation because of its rich history and the capability of sustained excitement at the very highest levels. One can be tremendously excited by a 90-second MMA contest, but for me boxing’s thrills can take on so many more forms – a Hagler-Hearns shootout, a Leonard-Benitez chess match, a grueling Chacon-Limon war of attrition, a Julian Jackson one-punch KO or a Salvador Sanchez master class.

But because of the peculiarities of boxing’s infrastructure – which include the whims of multiple sanctioning bodies on top of everything else I mentioned earlier – I don’t believe my favorite sport will ever get to the streamlined place UFC has already created for itself. And that’s why this “war” will never really be fought on an even playing field. Until boxing’s powers-that-be buckles down and address its multitude of deep-seated problems seriously, this great sport will not give itself a true fighting chance.

* Just before a transferring a series of VHS fights to DVD I always bring up Boxrec to jot down the date and take note of the results. I don’t know about you, but I get a little extra jolt every time I see the letters “DQ” – shorthand for “disqualification,” not the place where you eat Blizzards – next to a name. The first thing that pops into my head whenever I see those letters is “what in the world did he do to deserve that?” It never ceases to amaze me that the very act of striking another person in sanctioned combat isn’t enough sate one’s craving for chaos. But over my nearly 36 years as a boxing fan I’ve learned that not all DQs are created equal. Of all the results we see in the record books, the disqualification encompasses the widest variety of scenarios – and sometimes the deepest looks into an athlete’s psyche.

The most infamous DQ of this generation was Mike Tyson’s ear biting of Evander Holyfield in their June 1997 rematch, an act so vile that Tyson was fined a record $3 million and had his license revoked for 16 months. Most astute observers realized by then that Tyson was an unstable character capable of anything and former trainer Teddy Atlas – who knew Tyson as well as anyone inside and out – went as far as to predict the disqualification loss. Tyson’s reputation was permanently scarred and though he never officially lost another fight by DQ he came perilously close against Francois Botha, Orlin Norris and Lou Savarese.

Other unusual DQ scenarios included the following: * After losing his undisputed welterweight title to Lloyd Honeyghan in 1986’s Upset of the Year, Donald Curry took a pair of comeback fights against Tony Montgomery and former IBF junior middleweight champion Carlos Santos. Oddly, both bouts ended in the same round (the fifth) for the same reason (intentional headbutts).

* Riddick Bowe, who like Curry was looking to make another championship run after losing to Evander Holyfield, twice fought Andrew Golota in crossroad fights. In each fight Golota brought himself to the doorstep of victory only to slam it in his own face with a pair of low-blow disqualification losses.

* “Dangerous” Don Lee was aptly named because of his 6-2 height, his 78-inch wingspan and power that allowed him to rack up 27 knockouts in 32 wins. But that mean streak went wild in June 1989 when he defended his NABF super middleweight title against hometown favorite Paul Whittaker in Metairie, La. Lee suffered knockdowns in each of the first two rounds only to rebound with knockdowns in the fourth, fifth and sixth. Unfortunately for Lee he struck Whitaker while he was down each time, which caused him to lose two points, ignited the crowd to throw debris into the ring and led to him being chased.

* Long, lean Henry Akinwande earned a fifth round DQ against Lennox Lewis for excessive holding while Oliver McCall (officially a TKO loser) should have been similarly ousted when he suffered a nervous breakdown during his rematch with Lewis five months earlier. The referee in both fights – the hard-nosed judge Mills Lane.

* Three of Terry Norris’ first six losses came by disqualification during fights he was winning easily. Against Joe Walker in November 1987 Norris was tossed for hitting his opponent immediately after scoring a knockdown. Then there were the bizarre first two fights against Luis Santana, a man who many thought did not deserve one title fight, much less the three he eventually received. In their first match Norris lost his WBC super welterweight belt by fifth round DQ via a combination of a glancing blow to the back of the head and Santana feigning unconsciousness. Then Norris lost the rematch after striking Santana well after the bell ending round two. The emotionally charged Norris finally got it right in their third fight as he polished Santana off in two rounds on the undercard of Tyson-McNeeley.

* Then there are the DQs that are somewhat more benign. Many, especially in Mexico, are granted to a fighter who suffers a butt-induced gash. Also, Marco Antonio Barrera’s first loss to Junior Jones was a DQ, not a “KO by,” because referee Max Parker Jr. determined that Barrera’s seconds entered the ring before the bell ending round five.

The grandfather of “DQ” was “LF” – lose by foul. One of the more notable LFs belonged to Benny Leonard, who, as the reigning lightweight champion, challenged welterweight king Jack Britton in 1922. According to the Boxrec note accompanying the fight, the writers at ringside had Britton well ahead when a Leonard body shot caused the champ to double over and crumple to the canvas. As Britton came to a knee Leonard swatted him with a light blow that caused referee Patsy Haley to run him. Some believe that Leonard purposefully fouled out because (1) he bet against himself and (2) he didn’t want to win the welterweight title because it offered less lucrative opportunities than the more prestigious lightweight belt.

While the second supposition may well have been true, the first doesn’t fly because a foul result would have nullified all bets, including Leonard’s. No one besides Leonard will ever know his true intent, so there is little choice but to let the result stand as is.

Finally – just for fun – I leafed through the champions’ section of the 1985 Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia and took note of victories and defeats via foul. Here are some interesting items I discovered:

* Jackie “Kid” Berg won the most fights by foul – 13 – while Mysterious Billy Smith was disqualified 11 times. The only other fighter to achieve double digits in either category was Benny Bass, who lost 10. * Waldemar Holberg of Denmark, who held the welterweight title for just 23 days in January 1914, lost eight of his 58 fights by disqualification – including three straight against Bill Johnson (twice) and Paul Breviers in November and December 1912.

* Three of boxing’s most notoriously “dirty” fighters – Harry Greb, Fritzie Zivic and Sandy Saddler – had astonishingly low totals. Greb and Saddler posted only one DQ loss each over a combined 456 fights while Zivic – a 230-fight veteran himself – actually came out ahead 1-0 in terms of DQ fights. Maybe that’s because all three were exceptionally good at concealing their darker arts.

* Fighters who posted multiple DQ wins and losses include: Benny Bass (3 wins and 10 losses) Jock Malone (5 wins and 2 losses) Tiger Flowers (5 wins and 2 losses) “Original” Joe Walcott (2 wins and 3 losses) Dixie Kid (2 wins and 2 losses) Ted “Kid” Lewis (3 wins and 5 losses) Georges Carpentier (4 wins and 2 losses) Dave Sullivan (2 wins and 3 losses) Brooklyn Tommy Sullivan (5 wins and 5 losses) Andre Routis (8 wins and 5 losses) Tommy Paul (3 wins and 2 losses) Freddie Miller (3 wins and 2 losses) Kid Williams (5 wins and 6 losses) Frankie Genaro (4 wins and 3 losses) Valentin Angelmann (2 wins and 2 losses) Jackie Brown (3 wins and 4 losses) Other notable totals include: Joe Symonds – 7 wins George “Digger” Stanley – 7 losses Tod Morgan – 6 wins Bruno Arcari – 6 wins Philadelphia Jack O’Brien – 6 wins Len Harvey – 6 wins Nino Benvenuti – 5 wins Marvin Hart – 5 wins Maxie Rosenbloom – 5 wins Perico Fernandez – 5 wins Joe Gans – 5 wins Marcel Thil – 4 wins Jack Johnson – 4 wins Frank Klaus – 4 wins Randy Turpin – 4 wins Pete Latzo – 4 wins Freddie Welsh – 4 wins Pedro Carrasco – 4 wins Young Griffo – 4 wins Mario D’Agata – 4 wins Gorilla Jones – 4 losses Ad Wolgast – 4 losses Solly Smith – 4 losses Maurice Holtzer – 4 losses

* Finally, I logged onto Boxrec and perused the record of the most infamous fall guy of all – English heavyweight “Fainting” Phil Scott. According to the site, Scott boasted a pretty good record of 65-13-5 with 30 knockouts and he played it straight throughout the majority of his career. His first DQ victory was an 18-rounder against George Cook in January 1926 and over his last 26 fights he added five more to solidify his reputation. The other reason for his unflattering moniker came from his shaky chin as eight of his defeats came by knockout, including his last three outings against Jack Sharkey, Young Stribling and Larry Gains.

Now that I’ve said just about everything I can about DQs, I think I’ll go out and buy a Blizzard.

More from PhilBoxing