Welcome to my mailbag fight fans. If you celebrate Easter, I hope that you had a Happy Easter spending time with family and eating chocolate eggs. Over a week has passed since Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez squared off in their classic rematch but the fans are still buzzing about it. Almost all of the questions in the mailbag this week are still reactions to the fight. Some Pacquiao fans were giving me flack for scoring the match in favor of Marquez but overall, just about everyone is in agreement that it was a great fight and very close.
Before we get to all of that, I have some thoughts on the major fights that happened over the week. There were two important upsets: Brian Vera TKO7 over Andy Lee and Joel Casamayor TKO10 over Michael Katsidis. Andy Lee losing to the limited Vera was the more shocking of the two upsets. Lee?s legendary trainer Emanuel Steward had hyped him up as the next Tommy Hearns. The Andy Lee bandwagon was in full effect among boxing fans with that kind of endorsement.
Many made the distinction between the two prominent boxers of Irish descent, Andy Lee and John Duddy. Duddy was supposed to be the hype job that was trying to cash in on a big money fight right away, where as Lee was being brought along and groomed like a thoroughbred prospect with a hall of fame future. Perhaps the media designated the wrong Irishman as the hype job, or maybe both are overrated. Time will tell.
Lee fans are complaining about the stoppage, but he had lost his legs by about the 5th round. The knockout loss was inevitable with the kind of shape that Lee was in. I actually would not have minded if the fight had been stopped a couple minutes before it was.
Lee and Steward are making an attempt at immediate redemption by seeking a rematch with Vera. I think that is a fight the Andy Lee needs to salvage any reputation that he had accumulated prior to the Vera fight.
Perhaps you can?t consider Joel Casamayor?s win over Michael Katsidis an upset because Casamayor was the proven commodity and Ring Magazine Champion against the largely unproven Katsidis. But with how haggard and shot Casamayor had looked in his last couple of fights, you had to make a young, hungry tiger like Katsidis the favorite to dethrone Casamayor.
Katsidis put up a good fight and a tremendous effort after some early rough spots but eventually got caught with a great punch from Casamayor. The most shocking part of the result was not that Casamayor won, but that he was able to win by KO. I thought that if Joel was going to win it was going to be from using slick veteran tricks to win a decision. After all, the Cuban champ had not scored a KO over a legit opponent in years. Yes I said years. Last time was when he KO?d Diego Corrales in 2003, and even that was stopped because of cuts and not a true knockout.
Casamayor answered three major criticisms about him with the crushing win over Michael Katsidis. First, he proved that he is just as good as ever and not shot like most people thought. That was obvious with this great performance starting in the opening round. Second, he proved that he could eliminate the judges out of the equation with his power. Third, Casamayor showed that he is not a boring fighter, a reputation that he has gained over the years. Casamayor vs. Katsidis was a great fight with tempo changes, momentum swings, and it ended in a highlight reel knockout.
The lightweight division is now a two-headed beast with Nate Campbell holding most of the belts and Joel Casamayor holding the Ring Magazine recognition. With Manny Pacquiao making his debut in the division, he will have to go through Campbell and Casamayor if he wants true glory at lightweight. Or maybe Campbell and Casamayor will make it easy on Pacquiao by fighting each other first. What a great match up that would be, a rematch of a heated ten round battle from 2003. Casamayor said that Campbell gave him his toughest fight.
On to the mailbag, I hope you are in the mood for some heated debates about Marquez vs. Pacquiao II. If you are you are in for a treat with the questions this week. We start off with an amusing email from a crazed Pacquiao fan.
Apparently I Am a Nuthugger
Your commentary in last week?s mailbag was a nice way of saying you don’t agree with the judges. At least, this time you showed your scorecard, unlike the first fight when you just mumbled about how well Juan Manuel Marquez came back but didn’t have a scorecard as evidence.
This time around, the judges got it correct. A very well deserved win for Pacman. This time there is again a scoring error because in the 3rd round, that was two knockdowns not one. Kenny Bayless should have given an 8 count because Marquez was held up by the ropes. This time I say he was saved by the ropes and not by the judges like last time. Anyway, a great fight and whoever is the loser should take it like a man. Period.
Your scorecard seems reasonable for a JMM nuthugger but I differ to opine. Round 1 is for Marquez, 7 and 9 and 11 are for Pacquiao and were never close.
-Sal
Sal,
Your ignorance shines through with your insults. Please explain to me how I am a Marquez nuthugger? Is anyone who is not a blind Pacquiao fanatic a Marquez nuthugger? Is there any middle ground? Next time you want to insult me, use a legit email address so that I can respond to you personally. You are a coward for using a fake email address.
You said that rounds 7, 9, and 11 were for Pacquiao and were not close. That statement is another glaring indicator of how ignorant you are. You are saying that anyone who scored those rounds for Marquez are either biased or do not know how to score a fight.
Well did you know that all three judges scored round 7 for Marquez? Did you know that one judges scored round 9 for Marquez? Did you know that all three judges scored round 11 for Marquez? So according to you these judges, the same ones who award Pacquiao a victory, are Marquez nuthuggers!
And by the way, round 11 was all Marquez. Round 11 was a CLEAR Marquez round and may have been his best of the fight. Every judge, commentator and writer that I have seen their scorecard gave round 11 to Marquez. Blasting my scorecard when you gave round 11 to Pacquiao is a joke. So saying that everyone should have scored those rounds for Pacquiao with no exceptions is asinine.
However, I agree with you on one notion; that two knockdowns could have been scored in the 3rd round instead of just one. Marquez would have fallen if the ropes had not supported him. If the referee had scored two knockdowns in favor of Pacquiao then my scorecard would have read 113-113; a draw. Perhaps that would have been more fitting since both fighters have fought twice but essentially are even up with each other.
One Fan?s Scorecard
Hi Brian, I’ve been reading your Mailbag quite sometime now and I’ve come to see most of your brilliant opinions. This is my dissection of the Pacquiao vs. Marquez II Fight:
Round 1: They started slow, feeling out each other. Pacquaio opens the fight by throwing 1-2 punch, Marquez a punch to the head in the middle of the round. Pac connects a 3 punch late. Very close round, due to less activity by both fighters. Marquez got 1 significant punch in this round while Pacquiao landed more punches. My score: 10-9 Pacquiao (should be 10-10, but this score is not recommended).
Round 2: Pacquiao starting to get aggressive, Pacquiao showing his defensive skills in the first half by blocking Marquez punches. Marquez was able to counter Pacquiao and wobbled Pacquiao in the later part. My score: 10-9 Marquez.
Round 3: Pacquiao walks into a punch by Marquez and halts momentarily. Head collision occurred halts the action temporarily. Pacquaio with a late rally, knocks down Marquez hard with a left hook with 20 sec left. Pacquiao going for the kill, a flurry by Pacquiao to the head punctuated by a Right Hook almost sends Marquez to the canvas for the second time if he didn’t hold on to the rope. Marquez went to the wrong corner. My score: 10-8 Pacquiao, big round.
Round 4: Pacquiao continues his attack with caution. He landed the more clear & hard shots. Marquez counters, continues to counterpunch. They trade punches near the ropes, and Pacquiao showing his foot speed. My score: 10-9 Pacquiao.
Round 5: Pacquiao continues to press the action, Marquez backing & counterpunching at will, Marquez attacking & pressing sporadically. It’s a boxing match, Marquez gets the better. Marquez with hard right straight to the head. Pacquiao with Straight left to the head before the bell. My score: 10-9 Marquez.
Round 6: Marquez doing well in the first minute with his counterpunching. Pacquiao fights back in the 2nd minute. Marquez with a hard right. Pacquiao showing his blocking skills again. My score: 10-9 Marquez.
Round 7: The first half was even. Head collision opens a cut on Marquez? right eye. Pacquiao sees blood, brings out the tiger in him. They trade punches inside, Pacquiao getting the better of the exchanges. My score: 10-9 Pacquiao
Round 8: Marquez opens the round with a hard right straight to the head opens a cut to Pacquiao?s right eye. Pacquiao being bothered by the cut slows down offensively. My score: 10-9 Marquez.
Round 9: Pacquiao with a hard right. Marquez with a hard straight right to the head. Pacquiao with a hard left straight to the head. Marquez coming forward. Pacquiao coming forward with a hard left. Referee halts the fight to check Marquez left eye. Fight resumes and they trade punches at the bell. My score: 10-9 Pacquiao.
Round 10: Marquez walks into a Pacquiao left hook almost knocks down out of the ropes at 10 seconds into the round. Pacquiao for the kill, threw punches in bunches. Marquez weathers the storm and fights back with 2 min left. Pacquiao with a hard right straight. Marquez fights back. Pacquiao with a hard left straight to the head. My score: 10-9 Pacquiao big round.
Round 11: Wide cut in Marquez right eye shown at the break. They trade punches at even terms in the first minute. An unintentional low blow from Marquez, referee gave Pacquiao a time to rest. The fight is on even terms. Pacquiao with a hard left hook at the bell. My score: 10-9 Marquez close round.
Round 12: Marquez with a hard right to the head opens the round. Marquez with a left-right to the body. Pacquiao swinging with his left hand hoping to land and miss. Marquez getting the better of the exchanges. They trade punches to the bell. My score: 10-9 Marquez.
Final Score: 6-6 by rounds. I have Pacquiao winning by 114-113. I had the same score as yours, except Round 7 I gave to PacMan. -Wengz2002
Wengz2002,
That is a fine account of the fight. 114-113 for Pacquiao is a reasonable score. I have no problems at all with your scorecard (although like I said in the email above, I don?t think round 11 was close). Round 7 was a very close round and I can see how you would score it for Pacquiao even though my scorecard had Marquez winning that round.
Say No To Immediate Rematch
I don’t think an immediate rematch again is good at this point. Just like Arum’s views. If I’m the Promoter, I will make a June 2008 fight that looks something like this: Marquez vs. Morales and Pacquiao vs. David Diaz.
Then in September 2008 we see Pacquiao vs. Campbell and Marquez vs. Valero. If they win their fights, December 2008 or Early 2009 we have Pacquiao vs. Marquez III
I also don’t like what the Marquez camp did during the post fight conference. They’re so unprofessional. I remember, when Pacquiao lost to Eric Morales during the first fight, although it was a close fight and he felt that he won the fight, he didn’t complain too much!!!
-Wengz2002
Wengz2002,
Personally I don?t have any interest in a Manny Pacquiao vs. David Diaz fight, but it looks like that fight is inevitable so we are stuck with that reality. Your proposed fight itinerary looks like it has some very entertaining fights. I would be fine if that is what ended up happening.
Say Yes To Immediate Rematch
Hi Brian, it has been a while since my last email. That was a great fight we witnessed last weekend – Pacquiao vs. Marquez. After watching the fight, I remembered your assessment on this and thought your prediction was correct except for the decision. The fight was too close to score for some of the rounds but the majority of the rounds went to Marquez. I had Marquez winning this one – 115-112, even Manny was surprised by the outcome.
With this, I believe the rematch has to happen first before Manny moves up in weight. Marquez deserves the rematch; he accepted the fight with a lower purse, and with a rematch clause for Pacquiao if he loses, and lastly a very tough fight to call but still Marquez dictating the majority tempo of the fight. I hope Manny will be able to think about this, as a fighter’s respect to each other. What’s your call on this Brian?
By the way, curse the screaming guy in Manny’s corner. It showed a lack of poise from their team and caused more damage on Manny by being nervous, not being able to cut off the ring effectively. For sure Roach knows this, since he mentioned he doesn’t want anybody doing the talking except for him.
Thanks Brian and keep up the great mailbag!
-Richard Lopez-Pozas
Richard,
I appreciate the kind words and noticing that even though I picked the wrong winner, my fight prediction was pretty accurate.
I would also rather see an immediate rematch. The interest in this potential rematch is at its peak right now and will only die down with time. Unfortunately it looks like David Diaz and Pacquiao will fight in June first.
Again With the ?My Guy? Talk
Did you feel (your guy) Juan Manuel Marquez (since you pick him, that’s why I put “your guy”) was cheated because Manny won the decision? Did you feel that your guy was robbed? Are you satisfied with the verdict? Tell us your thoughts…..More power to you, my man!
-Benjie M. Tiu
Benjie,
No, I don’t think that Marquez was robbed. Robbed is an over used word in boxing that I think it should be saved for decisions that truly are unjust. My scorecard had Marquez winning by one point but there were two close rounds that I scored for Marquez that could have easily been scored for Pacquiao so I cannot complain.
I am satisfied with the decision because the scores were reasonable. However, even though Pacquiao won he has not proven over two fights that he is the better fighter. No matter if the judges score the fight in favor of Marquez or Pacquiao, these two still have unfinished business because opinions differ greatly on who won the two fights.
Benjie Not Satisfied
Are you really satisfied with the decision? I think you are not there yet by the way you reason out. You say Pacquiao has not proven to be superior. He won so why not?
Did Marquez prove that he is the better fighter in those two fights? I think not! Yes, he came back from those knockdowns, but please don’t tell me that Pacquiao was schooled or outboxed by Marquez. It’s like saying that he is the better fighter. Well, maybe, you might say it considering he is your man!
What if Marquez won those fights? Would you be saying Marquez has proven that he is the better fighter? One thing I am sure about. That is, you will only be convinced if Manny KO?s Marquez in their fight or if Marquez wins nothing more than a split decision over Manny. I’m sure you will say then after, that Marquez is the better fighter than Manny.
-Benjie M. Tiu
Benjie,
That is complete nonsense Benjie. I said I was satisfied with the decision because the fight was very close and I can understand how someone could have a score of 115-112 or 114-113 for Pacquiao.
But no matter how you or the judges scored the fight, neither man proved to be superior. The first fight was justifiably scored a draw and the second probably should have been scored the same. Press row and fans were split down the middle on who they thought won.
If Marquez had won both decisions I would still be saying that neither man has proved to be superior to the other because Pacquiao has just as much of an argument to winning those decisions as Marquez.
And Manny does not have to KO Marquez to prove that he is the better fighter. He has to win a decision decisively and he has not done so yet. Neither has Marquez.
More Unfinished Business
Who really wins between Marquez and Pacquiao remains a question mark and even a rematch will not guarantee an answer. They are both good in their styles and have heart but it will be power that separates them. Manuel had the chance to KO Manny in round 8 when Manny was really hurt and had his eyes closed by blood, but he was too cautious – just content to win by decision. I do believe there will be a rematch, or Unfinished Business II. And if Manny does not KO Juan Manuel Marquez, probably Unfinished Business III.
How about Valero vs. Marquez and then the winner faces Pacquiao? Valero is a southpaw and has the power minus the speed. If he can KO JMM then he can taunt Pacquiao on this – something Manny could not do in 24 rounds. If Marquez wins, then it would add something to his claim that he is really a good fighter. I want see this rather than Marquez vs. Guzman.
-Lucas
Lucas,
I like your analysis, when will the Unfinished Business end? Will their business always be unfinished?
I would love to see Edwin Valero get thrown into this mix. He is a dynamic puncher and I think that the general public, not just boxing fans, can really get into a fighter like Valero. But I wonder if Juan Manuel Marquez will bypass a fight with Valero and chase Pacquiao by moving up to lightweight.
Pacquiao?s Power
Brian, do you have any comments on the following statement:
“However, the difference in the fight seemed to be what Emanuel Steward referred to in the trade as “heavy hands”. Manny has that ability to knock his opponent silly without even landing square. He gets hit on the chin, and manages to hit his opponent with a glancing blow, but who is hurt worse? It’s usually his opponent. What a great gift to have, the knowledge that you can not only hurt your opponent, but take him out at any time with one punch.?
-Sam
Sam,
Well, Manny needed to land cleanly in order to drop Marquez in both fights. The glancing shots do not seem to have quite the impact that the author of that statement would like to suggest. Pacquiao is an excellent puncher though. His power is one of his best assets.
A very foolish decision for any of Pacquiao?s opponents at 130 pounds or lower is to stand and trade power punches with Manny. Any time that happens it usually ends in a knockdown or momentum swing in favor of Manny.
Talks of Penalosa vs. Ponce De Leon Rematch
Hi Brian, I?m a boxing fanatic and I really appreciate your answering my question for the first time. (I told all my friends bout it!) Thanks again!
Daniel Ponce De Leon is a fierce fighter and there is a rumor that he will have a rematch with Pe?alosa sometime this year. Do you think the latter can win this one? I mean, the guy’s 35 years old, and he’s not that strong nor fast anymore. Yes, Pe?alosa is a tactician, but will he survive a bomber? Should De Leon take this seriously? Thanks Bro!
-Philip S. Sanchez
Philip,
You are very welcome Philip, I was happy to feature your question.
As for Penalosa vs. De Leon, Daniel better take that fight seriously because I thought Penalosa beat him last time! Penalosa is a very skilled and durable fighter who I respect and admire. With his advanced age he will be fighting two opponents: Daniel Ponce de Leon and father time. This will probably be a much tougher fight for Penalosa because he is older and has to have lost some speed and reflexes since the first fight with Ponce De Leon.
With that said, I favor De Leon to win this crossroads match up but Penalosa is a live underdog. Daniel has the edge in strength, power, youth, and vigor. However, Gerry is by far the better technician so he has a chance here. Penalosa is a veteran with many tricks so you can never count him out.
Marquez Sisters Cry Too Much
What do you think of the now famous crybabies along with their trainer? They complain as if they beat the living hell out of their opponents. Maybe it is part of the Beristain championship training method: wail when you can?t win with your fists. They were blaming everybody else but themselves on why they lost when it was purely their fault (if they didn?t get knocked down in their respective fights they would have won). I had Juan Manuel Marquez winning by a score of 114-113 but it could go either way. Their loud wailing just left a bad taste in the mouth.
-Vinjo
Vinjo,
Marquez sisters? They fought in two of the greatest battles of their time and gave efforts worthy of recognition. I think you are being harsh on them. Imagine yourself in their shoes. They trained for months on end, sacrificing their families, their friends, basically making a huge life sacrifice to train properly for these monumental fights. There is so much at stake with each decision and each round scored. A part of a fighter dies when a decision does not go their way. All of their sacrifices were for nothing. Their lives can be ruined by the subjective scoring of a judge if the stakes are high enough.
Being a championship boxer is not an easy business. A fighter never wants to admit that he has lost. Losing boxers especially will not concede defeat when many fans and members of the press agree with them. Whining about decisions has been around since the beginning of boxing as an organized sport. We don?t have to like the complaining, but that is boxing.
I will say that Bob Arum is a hypocrite for his blow up directed towards Beristain and Marquez at the press conference. Arum has cried and whined many times about decisions against his fighters that were even less controversial than Marquez vs. Pacquiao II.
Marquez Against The Mexican Legends
Thanks for the reply, point taken. Switching subjects, who do you think would win when in their primes? Erik Morales vs. Juan Manuel Marquez? Marco Antonio Barrera vs. Juan Manuel Marquez?
-Vinjo
Vinjo,
Oh man, those are tough. I will go with Marquez over Barrera, not because I think he was a better fighter overall, but because he had a tough style for Barrera.
Marquez vs. Morales really should have happened at some point. Erik’s reach would give him an advantage enough to win a close decision over Marquez.
I thought that Barrera slightly got the better of Morales in their three fights. Barrera won the first and third on my scorecard and you can make the case that Morales won the second. So with my scorecards and my predictions, that would leave us with the round robin scenario where Barrera beats Morales, Marquez beats Barrera, and Morales beats Marquez! Styles make fights.
That question concludes this week?s mailbag. I hope you enjoyed reading. If you would like your question to be featured ?Brian?s Boxing Mailbag,? send me an email and I will be happy to include you. See you next week everyone!
