In this edition of Ask the Editor, some readers are still having trouble moving on from Calzaghe v Lacy but we also get to jaw about this weekend’s WBC heavyweight title fight, the Hall of Fame, whether the Pac-Man should have been stopped v Erik Morales and Green v Mundine.
WHAT’S EATING THE BRITS?
First Name : Willis Last Name : Cook Country : USA Your Question : I enjoyed watching Calzaghe’s flawless performance in his devasting victory over Lacy. Its fights like these that put the “sweet” in “the sweet science.” My question: what is it about Calzaghe’s victory that seems to have provoked such anger in all the British at Americans. The comments you’ve printed are absolutely bewildering. Guys…lighten up, please. You won!
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: The combustive response was to be expected if one considers the normative reaction when one group feels they have been over looked by another and even denigrated. I am a Canadian; but, viewing many many USA, ESPN, HBO and Showtime broadcasts over the last 3 decades, it’s fairly routine to hear American commentators openly ridicule British fighters, especially – though not exclusively – heavyweights… that despite the fact Lennox Lewis proved to be thee fighter of the last 15 years at heavyweight… anyway, the post-Calzaghe reaction was a born of a pent up frustration with a) not having as many top fighters from Britain as the fans would have liked/expected and b) having to bare the sense of their top fighters, who do make it, being routinely categorized as second tier mainly because they don’t fight out of America… that’s got a lot to do with the reaction…
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Patrick is 100% right. A great many US commentators and writers are borderline racist when covering UK fighters.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: I think Brits tend to get angry when they are ignored Willis. The American press especially wrote Joe off, declaring he had never really fought any good Americans. At the end of the day, you guys still have an empire. We lost ours. Any chance to prove we are still ‘up there’, and we’ll take it! Agreed though, we should lighten up.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Excellent point Willis! Once again it was shown that good boxing skills can nullify power. I’m happy for the Joe Calzaghe fans that he won. He has many passionate fans and they obviously felt aggrieved that so many people had written Joe off before the fight. That has turned itself to the attacks on the boxing writers who picked Lacy to win. But I can understand their point. They feel their man, who had never lost before, was slighted pre-fight. It’s fans like these that help make boxing the great sport that it is. Will any Joe Calzaghe fan ever forget that night in Manchester? Never!
**** US FIGHTERS FEAR FLYING
First Name : Graham Last Name : Lengthorn Country : United Kingdom Your Question : about boxers fighting abroad, why should Joe Calzaghe or Ricky Hatton have to fight in America to make good money, both are world champions so if someone wants their belts maybe its about time some Americans who many I believe feel they “will fall off the face of the panet as soon as they leave America” how many people outside America have had the chance to see the likes of Roy Jones jr, B Hopkins , Winky Wright, Zab Judah, Oscar de la Hoye and the likes of these over the last 10 years? not many so maybe its about time some Americas started boxing outside their own backyard???
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Great points, Graham, although Winky Wright has defending world titles in England, France, South Africa – all over the world, basically.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Good point Graham. Why should Calzaghe and Hatton have to fight in the USA? Ultimately, I would say the answer would be for greater recognition on a world wide scale and more money. Boxing is bigger in the USA than any other county in the world. Even with the fantastic support that Joe and Ricky receive in the UK, there is even more money to be made fighting the best in the USA.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: I don’t think we can hold fighters from different countries to different standards Graham. Our fighters are just as guilty as Americans in not going abroad. The fact is, fighters build up fan bases in their respective countries, and can make more money staying at home. I think that all fighters should be encouraged to travel more, fighting the best, rather than whoever can make them the most possible.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: Were the economics simply about the belts, you would have a case… the key factor for boxing economics is a combination of site fees, television revenues and in a distant third, ticket sales… there are additional factors but those are the top three… and boxing revolves around gambling based hotels, sites so unless you can sell out Wembley it’s difficult to do the economics for a “Roy Jones” or an “Oscar De La Hoya” fight outside of the US market… it’s do-able but the economics are not worth the options these guys get to fight else where… Jeff Lacy, a top “B” level economic fighter could do well for himself coming to the UK for the fight and chose to do so… “A” level fighters are not necessarily “A” level economic fighters… Winky is in fact the kind of guy who could do a deal outside of the US, if for example, Jermain Taylor were from Birmingham! He’s a classic “A” level talent, who’s barely a “B” level draw in the championship scheme of things as defined by marketability. Mostly, US fighters don’t want to give up what they define as “home court” and use the economics to rationalize it… since the value of having a title belt has been so mitigated in the last 20 years, making the case for a title defense depends totally on how strong an economic promotional package you can come up with… period.
**** GREEN v MUNDINE and BOJADO First Name : Paul Last Name : Carpenter Country : Australia Your Question : just need to know if you guys think Green & Mundine are still at the top of there game or if they are having this fight because they know they cant beat the present belt holders? I cant believe the tickets are $95-$1000 for a non title fight. Do you think they could beat any of the champs? I think it will be green by KO or either way on points as long as he can box like he did with Eric Lucas. Also there was a young Mexican on some Kostya undercards, Francisco Bojado who has disappeared after his loss to Jesse James. I thought he had massive power and good style. is he still boxing?
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: The Mundine vs. Green fight will tell a lot about where both of them are with their careers. Can Green handle Mundine’s speed and skills, can Mundine handle Green’s power? After Joe Calzaghe’s impressive win, on paper you would say that both would struggle with him. Mundine lost to Kessler by a wide margin on points and Green was outboxed in a close fight by Beyer. The winner of Mundine-Green will not have an easy path to a world title. It will be interesting to see how both of them handle the biggest fight of their lives even though a world title is not on the line. This will be one of the biggest sporting events in Australia this year and the tickets have been priced accordingly. If you are a boxing fan, I say go to the arena for the historical event value. There won’t be many outdoor boxing nights like this. As for Francisco Bojado, he popped up at the Mosley-Vargas fight and is on the way back. Panchito says he needed a break from the sport after the ! loss to James Leija. I’d suspect we will see him in the ring before the year is out.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: I don’t know too much about Green and Mundine, so I won’t weigh in on that question Paul. In regards to Francisco Bojado, I actually spoke to him at the Oscar De La Hoya press conference last week. I think he wants to fight again, but I couldn’t get too much out of him. He looked overweight, but healthy. He says he thought he got too far too soon, and was too young. Bojado was undeniably a talent, so it will be interesting to see whether he can regain some of his momentum. For my money, he main attribute in the ring was his composure, and that is harder to lose than anything physical.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: Paul, the Green-Mundine fight is all about Aussie bragging rights; it’s thee most anticipated Australian fight in memory, ever probably, and as a match-up between two camps that can’t stand each other it’s got the “hot blood” factor, as you doubtless know… Australian boxing guru Paul Upham and I have talked about this fight and thinks both fighters have enough left to trouble the champions at super-middle… personally, the Danny Green of 3 or 4 years ago would have been a nightmare for anyone to fight but he’s got a lot of hill to climb back to the kind of form he had at that point in his career… as for Mundine, though he’s very quick and agile, he’s got the same major liability his dad did at middleweight, his whiskers… Calzaghe or Kessler would eat Mundine for breakfast, in my opinion… but as a contrast of styles and personalities this is a natural, a real classic of big talents, the pride of Green vs. the Ego of Mundine… the banger against the boxer… aggression verses guile… the quiet blue collar everyman vs. the superstar mouth that roars… the colonial Australian vs. the Native son… what a ready-made rivalry! I don’t think this will go 12… just a feeling… “Panchito” Bojado is back training recently after a long self-imposed retreat from the sport… no one knows where he is at this point… only a return to dedicated training and competition will tell us the truth about “Panchito”
**** WHAT WAS BIRMINGHAM THINKING??
First Name : James Last Name : Glennard Country : United Kingdom Your Question : Masterful performance from Joe. I was extremely impressed. But how on earth did Dan Birmingham allow Jeff to continue after 8, 9, 10 rounds of such a beating? Joe may not be a hitter in the mould of Benn or indeed Lacy himself, but he does pack some power, and being hit with such a remarkable volume of clean heavy shots surely poses serious threat to a boxer’s health. While I do respect Lacy for fighting through to the finish, I feel a great deal of pity for him and the shadow that he was Saturday night. Comparisons were made with Tyson (which was always ridiculous – Jeff was always a nice guy until he decided to front up as a bad man once he arrived on our shores (what the hell was that all about?)), but I’d have rather seen him laid out and scrambling for his gum-shield, than plodding forward waiting to be hit time and again by hurtful punches he couldn’t see coming. It was a sorry scene in the latter rounds, and it could be that those last 3 or 4 rounds have finished Jeff Lacy as a top level fighter. (How can he ever regain that “I’m gonna walk through whatever you’ve got” confidence again?) But even worse, we’ve seen boxing tragedies as recent as last year with Leavander Johnson, and I fail to see how Lacy’s corner could’ve seen the last few round as anything other than a lost cause at best, and a career and possibly health destroying beating at worse. Fighters have suffered severe/fatal injuries from far less one sided contests. Surely, when there is absolutely zero chance of winning, people have got to protect these guys, because at times their pride doesn’t allow them to protect themselves. We all credited Buddy McGirt for an early but necessary withdrawal of Gatti against Mayweather. Dan B should have a serious case to answer.
Also, ITV need Jim Watt and Ian Darke, cos Duke McKenzie just don’t cut the mustard.
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Check out my interview with Dan Birmingham for his explanation, James. Personally, I think the fight should have been stopped in the last round but Birmingham knows a lot more about boxing in general, and Lacy in particular, than I do so I won’t second guess him. What I will say is that Team Lacy let their fighter down by not sending him to a hospital until the Wednesday after the fight – AFTER a trans-Atlantic flight back home! That, I cannot support.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: James, you must have missed the furore from many people who criticised McGirt for stopping Gatti in the corner. Johnny Lewis copped the same for Tszyu vs. Hatton and Jeff Fenech for Tyson vs. McBride. I agree with you, in hindsight, it would have been better to keep Lacy in the corner earlier. But I’m not going to second guess Dan Birmingham who is a thoughtful and caring trainer. Their thinking would have been that one good Lacy punch could have turned the fight around. I can tell you now that if Birmingham had of stopped the fight early, we would have had critics (I won’t call them boxing fans) in uproar demanding to know why Lacy didn’t fight to the end as they had ‘paid their money to see him fight’.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: Totally agreed on most of your points James. I don’t think the beating Lacy took was so severe that he cannot come back, but he took WAY more punches than he should have done. Getting punched by a professional boxer is no joke, no matter who you are, and limiting them is a must to stay healthy. I was personally outraged by Birmingham and the referee. I don’t care how tough Jeff is, he was not responding well to the punches he was receiving, and clearly was not going to win the fight. I think McGirt is one of the best in protecting his fighters by the way. He has been there himself, and knows how damaging it can be to take so many punches.
You are right about McKenzie as well James. I am never impressed with his commentary. He picks the fighter he likes, then tries to make an argument throughout that his fighter is winning even when they clearly aren’t.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: Great post James… One has to wonder if Dan Birmingham will be held to account for his decision in front of the media or by Lacy himself, once he’s had time to reflect and reevaluate his career options… that’s a very important question and certainly how Lacy responds to the defeat and his subsequent “comeback” will be, in part, seen in light of Birmingham’s “non-decision”… Promoter Gary Shaw was passionate in his voicing of a call to the corner to end the fight, we all know that… the next time Lacy fights that question will be front and center, in fact, it will be interesting to see it the Lacy-Birmingham working relationship can survive…
**** ONCE MORE WITH YOU KNOW WHAT
First Name : matt Last Name : williams Country : United Kingdom Your Question : Chaps,
First of all, congratulations on the most informative boxing website on the net. Excellent job. Its good to hear the views of people who actually know thier stuff and not some ‘jump on the boxing bandwagon cos Hatton won’ bum that I meet here in my hometown of England. However, just admit that with calzaghe you got it wrong. Stop delving through history and take it on the chin like a decent fighter. Calzaghe outclased Lacy by a mile. Although, like yourselves I will admit Lacy has turned out to be a one dimensional fighter, who, once a real challenge was put in front of him, froze, big time. Hopefully jeff will learn from this and Joe will get whatever he wants from the sport before he inevitably retires. Keep up the brilliant work. Boxing rules. Lets hope the likes of the BBC etc finally take notice.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Gee Matt, we’ve all been saying we got it wrong for two weeks now. Not sure what else we can do?
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Paul, volunteering to get choked out by a King of the Cage killer clearly wasn’t enough to appease these blood thirsty bastards we have as readers. Sorry, mate, it’s the piranha tank for you!!!
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: I’m sure all my colleagues at Secondsout will be delighted at your comments Matt. If I could just pay the complement back to our readers, I think we have the most informed and knowledgeable followers on the net. The emails we get are well written, polite and interesting, which is more than you can say for many of the other boxing websites out there. In regards to admitting most of us were wrong about Calzaghe, I think everyone has eaten enough humble pie for now Matt. Thanks again for the comments.
**** CALZAGHE FANS NEED TO SHUT UP!
First Name : Gerard Last Name : McLaughlin Country : Ireland Your Question : Hi guys,
First of all I just want to tell all the re-appearing Calzaghe fans to shut up. Im a Calzaghe fan – and NO-ONE predicted the manner of the win. I thought he might win but couldnt believe what I was seeing. As for Lacy I really hope he comes back from this. Hes a strong brave fighter that was prepared to travel – remarkable for an American fighter with such popularity. I think great fighters show themselves after a defeat and hope Lacy does so too. The bookies must have suffered a huge loss (everyone in UK seemed to know the result beforehand 🙂
I would just like to know your thoughts on DeLa Hoya v Mayorga. I was a bit worried about Oscar after the long lay-off and the dangerous opponent. But Mayorga has pushed DeLa Hoya’s buttons at the press conference and seems to have genuinely rattled the Golden Boy. Now this could all be promotion, but I hope DeLa Hoya destroys him. If he does where does he go next? He says he wont fight Vargas, Mosley is part of Golden Boy promotions, and apparently Mayweather wont happen while Bob Arum is involved. Who will be Oscars goodbye fight? Will Mayorga finish it prematurely?
Cheers guys great site, and although it was despicable that you predicted the wrong result to a fight – I’ll forgive you 🙂
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: You are right Gerard, all those bookies in Wales must have taken a hammering with everyone betting on their Joe. Thinking about it further, all the Joe Calzaghe fans are getting more satisfaction from this win over Lacy because so many people picked Lacy to win and said Joe couldn’t win. No need to thank me now though, I was just doing my job. As one notable American boxing writer was once heard saying in Las Vegas, “you get paid to make a pick, not to get it right”. As for De La Hoya vs. Mayorga, after the Calzaghe-Lacy result I’m a little spooked right now. My head is telling me Oscar, but he has been away from the sport for so long, who knows what sort of condition he will be in? I always admired Oscar for the way he got himself in condition (apart from the Sturm fight) over the last few years, regardless of the titles he had won and the millions and millions of dollars he had banked. We all know what Mayorga will be doing in the ring. But will it be the Mayorga vs. Trinidad or the Mayorga vs. Forrest? I’m going to hold off on my pick on this one until closer to the fight after I get some more intel on Oscar in training. This is not an easy fight to call at all.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: Thanks for your absolution Gerard… we needed it… as with all of Mayorga’s fights, if he’s able to apply the crude physical prowess on a fighter, then he becomes a problem… but, rushing banging, haymaker throwing bombers have never trouble De La Hoya and unless the “Golden Boy” has taken four steps backward Mayorga shoul be hitting practice for Oscar… the only troubling note here is the lingering doubt caused by De La Hoya’s floor walk against Hopkins… sure he was hurt by the body shot but few boxing insiders feel that he was totally incapable of getting up, which suggests that there is a sense out there that De La Hoya ‘chose’ not to get up… and once a fighter does that it becomes emotional memory, capitulation being the point of no return for fighters… that’s thee lingering caveat to the fight and something Mayorga believes will be a key to the fight.
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: De La Hoya will spank Mayorga. Ricardo is a horrible human being and Oscar will butcher him.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: I think Delahoya beats Mayorga via points. The Golden Boy doesn’t carry that much power at 154, but he should have enough to control Mayorga for 12 rounds. As for whom he fights next, if the money is right, relationships in boxing have a remarkable way of mending themselves and I would not be surprised to see Oscar doing business with Bob Arum. Expect a fight with the Pretty Boy later this year.
**** US FANS OVERHYPE THEIR OWN
First Name : Davey Last Name : Hayes Country : United Kingdom Your Question : Greetings all at Secondsout!
This message is yet another regarding the Calzaghe-Lacy fight, but before you all groan and brace yourself for another smug “I told you so” message, allow me to assure you my comments won’t be a carbon copy of what you’ve already been hearing.
I have to admit, I was as pleasantly surprised as the next Brit at the master performance Calzaghe pulled out on Saturday. My pre fight prediction was for a Calzaghe victory, yes, but no one can claim they expected what unfolded before us on March 4th. However my concern lies not with people writing Joe Calzaghe’s chances off, but with the fact that Lacy jumped to the top of the Super Middle rankings, and according to some sources, lb for lb rankings, without really doing anything to show that he is world class. OK who can deny his KO statistic looked exciting, but seriously who has he fought in his career that qualifies him to be such a hot favourite against an established champion of many years?
How Lacy qualified to be in several lb for lb rankings beggars belief. I will take the point that Lacy did at least appear to be on the way up, but to be the man you have to beat the man. Vanderpool, Reid and Pemberton were classic examples of fighters who were past their best but still hung on to scraps of credibility because their win/loss records had yet to take a nose dive. Now Joe has always been something of an enigma in Boxing, but in my opinion he’s always had the ability. His frustrating injury record aside, Joe always struck me as the kind of fighter who was dangerously close to missing out because he’d never had a career defining fight.
After being a champion for so long it started to become worryingly obvious that Joe could not get motivated for the likes of Kabary Salem and Evans Ashira and who could really blame him?
But as lacklustre as those performances were he still won by just about a shut out margin, making it blatantly obvious that a half asleep Calzaghe could still run circles around these supposed number 1 contenders. Lacy however came with all the hype and the trash talk of Gary Shaw that would surely reignite the spark in Calzaghe to show what he can do. Now I’m not taking anything away from Joe, because the performance was extremely good and the man deserves to wind up his career with the few meaningful contests that are out there for him. But surely the lesson here is more about over hyping a fighter like Lacy just because he’s ko’d his way through faded opposition.
I mean look at Ricky Hatton for example. The guy was eating his opponents alive but yet he was still drawing criticism because he hadn’t fought anyone considered to be high calibre. But when given the opportunity, history speaks for itself. Lacy bangs out some mediocre opposition and he’s propelled to the top of the division! I for one am glad that some sense has been restored to the rankings, and I’d say that no matter what the nationality of the fighter who won the fight.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: As I have commented in the last two ATE’s, going into the fight I looked at what I saw as problems with Calzaghe, as opposed to Lacy being so good. Looking back, I suppose I could have factored in more the boxing skills of Calzaghe and the effect of Lacy fighting way from the USA at 2am in Manchester. But Calzaghe had never looked to take the next step up in his career over a period of nearly nine years. I thought that told a lot about him. I was wrong. I certainly didn’t have Lacy in my pound for pound ranking’s. But I saw him as being on the way up and Calzaghe on the way down. It certainly didn’t work out that way. That’s boxing. But as you quite rightly point out, I don’t think anyone could have predicted what happened that night looking at all the facts available to them. That’s why so many so-called experts picked Lacy to win the fight. On the evidence available, he looked to be the winner.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: The thing you will never hear an American admit is that the pound4pound rankings are totally US-centric… an aged and obviously ebbing Bernard Hopkins at #1 all those years during the height of the Barrera-Morales era was just psychotic! But you could NEVER tell anyone in the US Hopkins was living on the fumes of his Trinidad masterpiece… To everyone else in the world that was like saying the sun usually looks yellow… but, the US media and the US boxing ‘world’ is very self-orientating when it comes to over all assessments of the pound4pound… but, then again it was their invention and remains a preserve of theirs… see, now Davey you have made me say something that will infuriate all of my American friends… +Pat ducking+
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: Jeff Lacy beat some very good fighters Davey, and I don’t think his ranking was unwarranted. It is easy to be wise after the event, and say how washed up the fighters he fought were. I agree, they weren’t the best in the division, and some had clearly seen better days, but they were all solid professionals capable of giving any elite fighter a run for their money. I also don’t agree entirely that everyone got it wrong about Lacy. He was, and is an excellent fighter. According to Ant, who was with Lacy in the last couple of days leading to the fight, the Floridian was looking decidedly off. Maybe the pressure got to him, or maybe he just wasn’t ready for a fighter like Calzaghe. Being at your best on any given day is an art form extremely difficult to perfect. Who knows what was going through Jeff’s head in the build up to the fight. Some people just have bad days at the office, and they just cannot explain why. I think the truth of the matter is that Calzaghe was very switched on for the fight, and Lacy simply did not have it on the night. This is not to say that the outcome would have been different, just that Lacy could have performed significantly better. Lacy has certainly been over hyped, but lets not get carried away and say he was no good in the first place.
**** WHY WAS PAC-MAN NOT STOPPED?
First Name : Maximo Last Name : Torrejos Country : Philippines Your Question : Why is it that Eric Morales did win by TKO over the bloodied Manny Pacquiao in their first fight?
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: The answer is because as well as being a vicious puncher, Manny Pacquiao was able to withstand Morales best shots. Looking back, maybe this was the first sign that Morales was not the Morales of old? No matter what Morales threw, Pacquiao just kept coming at him that night and carried it into their rematch which he impressively won.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: Maximo it all comes down to the doctor’s decision… the referee goes by the guidance of the ringside doctor.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: I think that although Pacquiao was badly cut, it wasn’t affecting his ability to compete in the fight, Maximo. Plus, it was a massive championship bout, and leniency is usually given to fighters when it comes to injury.
**** LEORIES WRITES BACK
First Name : Leories Last Name : Nicolaou Country : United Kingdom Your Question : I see in your reply to my question that you totally avoided the actual point of my writing, you tried to make out that I was lambasting you for picking Lacy, when I stated that it was not this I had a problem with, but the manner in which many of you had to tried to sell Lacy, can you detail Mr Evans what it is you liked so much about Lacy, based on what evidence, so we can have a good pick? by the way it is pathetic in the extreme to write a deliberately patronizing reply and then ask some one to “move on” it is obvious I am not the only one who had problems with much of the write up pre fight. and as far as I am concerned your reactions to some of the critiscm show a bit of a sore point, ok DUDE?
I state again I feel Mr Evans based his views on hype not informed journalism and that was what I disagreed with. And by the way if you had included the last part of my contribution then your sarcastic little tantrum would have been rather null and void Mr Evans where I stated that I was no Joe zealot and didn’t consider the lacy fight a claim to greatness as from what I had seen prior to the fight I wasn’t impressed at all by Lacy. I have no problem in some one disagreeing with me or offering a different opinion, but if you are going to encourage people to write into your site, maybe you should keep your response less personal, I for instance had no probs with Paul Uphams reply, anyway Ant, could you post up your hot prospects for 06, now that would be a great bet against guide! ok DUDE?
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Dude, you are way too sensitive. At no point did I get personal with you, despite the fact the purpose of your original letter was to accuse me of being ‘unprofessional’ for tipping Lacy over Calzaghe.
And I DID address your central point, Mr Nicolaou by writing: “My own pick began with the words “Joe Calzaghe is an outstanding talent” and you can do a search for my work on Joe on SecondsOut for evidence that I’ve had Joe in very high regard for much of his career despite my growing frustrations at his B and C Level opposition.
However, Calzaghe had not looked good since 2003 and I believed that after years of so-so opposition and disappointment, the Welshman would not to able to mentally be at his peak. I was wrong.”
Moreover, I think you are somewhat confused on what journalism is. I don’t base any fight picks on journalism – I practice journalism. I guess you could accuse me of hyping Lacy myself, but not ‘listening’ to hype.
For the last time, I was tipping against Calzaghe as much as tipping for Lacy. I figured that Joe was on the slide a little (based on him getting dropped twice in three fights), was inactive, was coming off hand surgery and – a millionaire already – would not “want” it as much as Jeff. I got that last part wrong.
Meanwhile, I was impressed with Lacy’s punch power and figured that if Kabary Salem could hurt Joe and put him down then Lacy could do the same. I also like(d) the fact that Lacy had been kept so busy, trained like a madman, had one the world’s very best trainers in his corner, had the best southpaw sparring in the world in Winky Wright, had a good chin, great stamina and, until fight week, Lacy sounded ultra-confident whereas Calzaghe sometimes didn’t.
And I admit I get a little excited about up and coming talents from time to time but the alternative is become like Mike Katz and write about has utterly crap everything and everyone is. Me? I’d err of the side of optimism every time. I love the sport of boxing and the day I don’t get excited is the day I’ll quit doing this for a living.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: Just quick point Leories, I have never, ever known Ant to make a misinformed judgement on any boxer. I have questioned him on a few, but he ALWAYS (annoyingly) has a detailed response backed with good research and evidence. Other than that, I’ll leave this one to you Ant….
**** ROCK v TONEY
First Name : Ben Last Name : Dawson Country : United Kingdom Your Question : Well Chaps. I too thought I’d take up your rahman Vs Toney fight prediction challenge. I believe the fight will be closer than people are expecting. “Rock” is going to come into this fight, in the shape of his life. And we all know there is a mutual dislike between the two. Over in the other corner we have ten bellies Toney. Who it seems, needs his well fed stomach to make up the weight. Perhaps thats why his mouth is always moving, because it’s so used to chewing food. Lets not forget, Toney is coming off the back of a lackluster performance against Dominic quinn. Although we all know Toneys boxing skills talk for themselves. I’m going to be brave and Say “Rock” will win a close decision, or a draw might not even be out of the question. I also have Winky to win a decision. How do you guys see the fights swinging??
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Who is saying that this fight won’t be close Ben? I’m still trying to work out who is favorite. I thought the Calzaghe-Lacy pick was an easy one, this is tough. Do you go with Rahman’s size, age and power, or do you side with Toney’s boxing skills, toughness and macho? I like Toney’s skills, but I’m concerned about his recent run of injuries. Is his body telling him that it can’t carry that much weight and fight for twelve rounds? I like Rahman’s jab and his power, but I’m not sure that either man will be stopped. I think this one goes to the cards and it will be close. I’m going to think about this a little more before I finalize my pick.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: Ben you get the “Wisecracker of the Week” award, an unofficial award at SO, for the best wisecrack in naming Toney “Ten Bellies”… he’s actually getting very sensitive about that though not enough to do much about it in the gym, where it would count… Rahman will be in tip top shape for this fight and Toney’s going to have to hold in against a very hard hitting heavyweight who has a top level jab… that’s going to be a massive key for Rahman, the left lead to Toney, as he waddles forward trying to incite a battle at close range and one in which counter hitting takes a premium.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: I will go on record and state unequivocally that Toney beats Rahman hands down. It doesn’t matter what shape Hasim turns up in, he simply does not have the skills to compete with Toney. I just went to watch Toney spar (there will be a video coming out on SO tv today), and I have to say, I was very impressed. Tony does not look in shape, and he doesn’t punch particularly hard. But, they guy knows how to fight. Toney has an uncanny ability to roll, slip and duck his way out of trouble, and his timing is just unbelievable. I think he will have quite an easy time with the Rock, and make him look pretty stupid for much of the bout. I predict a lopsided decision. Oh, and I think Winky takes a solid decision.
**** HAIL JOE C
First Name : Nathan Last Name : McAllan Country : United Kingdom Your Question : Ant Evans, seconds out team, I stand and applaud you! as a British born boxing fan, and a long time fan of big Joey C, I applaud how you’ve handled the Johnnie come latelys on this here site. I’ve seen Joe in action, I’ve seen him in training, and I’ve always known about his ability, but, no lie, I felt the need to pray for his very soul before the first bell, and I’m not a religious man! he dominated, no one predicted it (except one SO journalist), no matter what they say. lacy is a top top fighter, but Calzaghe is world class, proven. Mr Evans, boxing monthly rules, seconds out rules too, and you guys keep sticking it to the muppets! JOE TO SCHOOL TARVER INSIDE 5!!!
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Just to show that I have indeed been suggesting Calzaghe needed to step up his level of competition for a while, I look back at this story I wrote Here! at SecondsOut in February 2005. I’m very happy that Joe did face Lacy and proved to the world how good he is. Not just for his fans, but for himself.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: I was reading your post Nathan, with a smile up until the last line… don’t forget the oxygen gets thin on Mount Olympus… just as people underestimated Joe C. the same is true with Tarver… he’s a classic example of a guy who when motivated and all there on the night is a nightmare to fight with his range, jab, southpaw power and ability to pound out effective patterns… the guy can hit you from Moscow too, those arms seem so long…
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Thanks for your kind words, Nathan. I also think Calzaghe will beat Tarver but stop short of picking him to “school” the light heavy king. Patrick is a big fan of Tarver and while I respect Antonio and his ability very much he was badly hurt by Roy Jones – a man who should not be fighting anymore – last November and looked totally spent after 8 rounds.
**** COLLINS v JOE C
First Name : Brian Last Name : Carty Country : Ireland Your Question : Hey lads. First off, after Calzaghe’s destruction of Lacy, is it time to reopen the who’d win between Joe and Collins debate. After all, lets not forget Joe never beat the champion to become WBO title-holder. Maybe I’m looking through my green tinted glasses but Collins wanted Jones Jr but was offered an up and coming Welsh prospect. Who wouldn’t be annoyed? I also have a general question about the heavyweights. Simply, did the division die when Tyson was dqed against Holyfield? The unification was tarnished and until the Klitschko fight, Lewis had nothing (bar the Rahman fluke) Finally, just wondering if perhaps Patrick has heard anything of John Duddy in New York. A real prospect apparently.
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: I think if they had fought in October 1997, when they were supposed to, Calzaghe would have won because he was really up for winning his first world title whereas Collins was bored with boxing after not securing a bout with Roy Jones. In a prime v prime type scenario, I think Joe would take a close points decision after a complete war.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Gee Brian, you’re putting the heat on us now! After Calzaghe’s performance against Lacy, how could I say that he couldn’t win? His fans would have me on toast! But one thing we must remember, Jeff Lacy is not Steve Collins. Actually, the more I look back on Lennox’ career, the more impressed I am. It seems he will be the last true dominant heavyweight for a long time. Against Klitschko he was out of shape, having expected to be facing Kirk Johnson. I think we were lucky to have Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis in succession. It’s just a pity we didn’t get to see more of them matching up in their respective primes.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: Brian a Collins-Calzaghe fight at or near their best (a hypothetical) would have been a very good contest, both were game a determined fighters who relied on boxing with volume hitting and making the other guy pay for defensive lapses. And they could both pop a bit too and that adds to the calculation. I think the heavyweight division has had some good fights post-Holyfield-Tyson but the match-ups have been disappointing and top fighters have not always fought each other in a timely manner… right now there’s at least a willingness of the top guys to have a go at each other precisely because there is no dominant fighter and by extension no dominant promoter working exclusionary and exclusive deals… that’s the positive spin to an era without an Ali, Holmes, Tyson or Lewis.
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: As tough as Steve Collins was, he would have been beaten handily by both Calzaghe and Jones in my opinion. Both would have been far to slick for Collins, and they would have danced circles round him. Not sure what you mean by Lewis having ‘nothing’? If you mean he was not a good fighter, then I you are plainly wrong. The guy cleared out the entire division, including Holyfield, Golota, Tua, Tyson, and Klitscho to name a few.
**** WELL DONE SO TEAM!
First Name : Matthew Last Name : Collin Country : United Kingdom Your Question : Hi Guys – just wanted to throw in my contribution on the Calzaghe furore. I thought it was pretty good of you guys to justify yourselves and your predictions but very unneccessary – Its all very well being wise after the fact, but considering that you are dealing with 2 people trained to hurt each other and then thrown in to a ring together, its impossible to get it right every time!!! – It would be interesting to get some of these smart arses to predict the next 10 big fights and to see how many they get wrong!!! Anyway, just wanted to say keep up the good work, when compared to some of the other muppets writing on competitor websites you guys are head and shoulders above. PS – I had Calzaghe to knock Lacy out in the 9th so ended up losing a packet anyway!!!!
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: That’s what makes boxing so great Matthew. When two boxers enter the ring, either man can win. It only takes one punch. There is such a greater opportunity for upsets than in other sports. There is constant danger with every punch thrown. Upsets make us walk away feeling that anything is possible. The sport with be boring without them.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: Matthew thanks for the kudos… I would also remind our readership that this is not a gambling site… picking winners of fights is the equivalent of bar talk mostly, fun but peripheral to the over all exploration of the sport…
BEN COHEN ANSWERS:I wasn’t going to bring this up, but I still maintain innocence in the Calzaghe/Lacy affair. If you didn’t say anything, you are not wrong…….
**** LACY JUST LIKE HOYE AND KERMIT
First Name : Andy Last Name : Bradshaw Country : United Kingdom Your Question : The Lacy Calzaghe debate has obviously now been discussed heavily but a serious point to consider along side Joe’s superb performance is the AGAIN over hyped marketing of an American fighter. Everyone in the media was gushing over Lacy far too soon before he’d really proved himself worthy + it seems Lacy had started to believe the hype himself. Look at his performances with a clear head (not getting excited about watching a blast out of an “opponent”). Syd Vanderpool was hardly the greatest. Reid was well past it + very slow, couldn’t get his shots off but still only really started to get in trouble after Lacy landed the first knockdown after the bell when Reid, rightly or wrongly had stopped fighting and wasn’t protecting himself. Pemberton, 38 years old, looked like he just didn’t fancy getting hit and put up no resistance. So, why all the premature plaudits? Lacy can hit, sure, and looks like he’d place well in a bodybuilding contest but so what? You can’t knock out what you can’t hit. Kermit Cintron and Rico Hoye were also looking great blasting out easy targets but came unstuck as soon as they met a world class oponent. We should be celebrating the genuine class fighters that there are out there now and who have earned their stripes the hard way – although I know the middle weights and heavies are in a poor state there are lots of other divisions in boxing! I did predict the Calzaghe win by points or late stoppage (will try and forward an email to prove it!!!) Joe should easy beat Tarver who can’t fight 3 minutes a round, Glen Johnson who is wooden, predictable and too old, Taylor should he move up from middle – he’s too knackered to keep up with 40yr old Bhop he’s no chance with joe throwing 1000+ punches at him. Only chance these guys have is if Joe’s dodgy hands let him down again or if they get him to the states and we find out Joe only likes it in the UK!
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Yes Andy, we should be celebrating truly classy boxers like Joe Calzaghe more. But for me, this was the first time he had let us do so against credible opposition. I think Lacy is a good fighter and he will be back, but Joe showed he is not in the same class. I’m just glad that Calzaghe let us all see his real ability before he retired.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: If what you are predicting were to be true or provable, Calzaghe would be a top flight all time great, the measure of his generation… and that’s getting a bit presumptuous… if you recall that’s what was said about Roy Jones and how he’d clean up on Collins, Benn, Waston etc, the entire list of great UK based fighters none of which he faced… creating long lists of opponents and coming up with a clean sweep is merely presumption… personally, I look for Taylor to beat Winky and any of the other middleweights out there right now… campagining at 168, well, that would be interesting.
**** HALL OF FAMERS?
First Name : David Last Name : Beckett Country : United Kingdom Your Question : Which boxers, who have recently retired or are at the fag end of their careers, would you expect to see inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame? I have made a short list of those who I consider to be in contention – who should be added or taken away?
In no particular order: Lennox Lewis Evander Holyfield Mike Tyson Roy Jones, Jr. Bernard Hopkins Erik Morales Marco Antonio Barrera Ricardo Lopez Shane Moseley Oscar de la Hoya Felix Trinidad James Toney Kostya Tszyu Thomas Hearns Julio Cesar Chavez
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Some good names there David. They need to be retired for five full years before being eligible for the International Boxing Hall of Fame in Canastota. Who knows if Holyfield or Hearns with ever retire! You have made some good picks there and I can’t argue with any of them really. It will be interesting to see how the voters view Tyson in a few years time. Whether their opinions have softened on him. Depending on how he goes against Rahman this weekend, Toney may struggle in your group.
PATRICK KEHOE ANSWERS: All of the above!
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: All of the above and I’d also take Barry McGuigan out!
**** GET OVER IT!
First Name : Pitbull Last Name : Jay Country : USA Your Question : My question is simple…
Why do you keep posting dozens of people all saying the same thing!!?… “Joe.C this…Joe.C that..” Get over it already!! I liked the guy a lot more BEFORE he beat Lacy… Listening to all these Brits yak about him, you would think he was “God” in a boxing robe.
Enough already!! We all get it.
BTW- PBF will destroy Hatton. So dont get yur hopes up too high….. “blokes”.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Jay, I’ve already told our Editor Ant Evans that we will be getting pro-Calzaghe over Lacy emails for the next 27 years at least.
ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Yes, Paul has pointed that out to me and is most probably correct, sadly. However, Mr Upham won’t accept as a cast iron fact that if his hero Roy Jones Junior has fought Nigel Benn none of this would be happening now…
BEN COHEN ANSWERS: Yes!!!! Everyone, PLEASE stop with the Calzaghe emails!!!!! Oh, and Mayweather will not destroy Hatton. You obviously don’t watch too much boxing ‘pitbull’, as a blind monkey could tell that ANY fighter at 140-147 would have huge difficulties with Hatton. Thanks for the email “mate”.
