I received three emails regarding the Barrera-Fana PPV card, which is three more than I expected. Saturday wasn’t a good night for Golden Boy Promotions in terms of pay-per-view business, but Friday was a victory for the company as their fighter Jorge Barrios spanked their former fighter Mike Anchondo on ESPN2’s Friday Night Fights. Read on for a ton of email on Anchondo’s loss, plus a variety of other subjects from Riddick Bowe’s near loss to Mike Tyson’s legacy to the Ali-Norton trilogy to the April 23rd ESPN card to JL Castillo’s P4P ranking to the “Steve Kim disease”. Enjoy!
NOT A GREAT WEEKEND OF BOXING
Hey Doug: Greetings from PR. Not a great weekend for boxing but better something than nothing at all.
What about Mighty Mike? Man, was I disappointed. Where was the guy who battered Goyo Vargas? Anchondo’s performance looked far away from the championship level. I really thought the kid had potential and I still do but he has to get his shit together. He looked pudgy and eager to be someplace far away from the ring.
Barrera-Fana? Well, lets just say that when Fana told the interviewer that the referee shouldn’t have stopped the fight, he was being as sincere as I am when I tell my girlfriend that she has nothing to be jealous of Halle Berry.
I know the Sweet Pea nickname fits Montiel as well as Bowe’s trunks would, but the guy was just brilliant Saturday.
He stole the show with his performance and it was great seeing him get some kind of revenge for his loss against Too Sharp. I’m really looking forward for other of his fights. Who should he fight next? Keep it going, TNR gets better by the week!!! – Roberto Lopez (Bobitongo)
I don’t know what happened to Anchondo, but that was not the same fighter who out-boxed Goyo Vargas. I agree that he looked chunky from all the water-weight gained after his failed weigh-in attempt (in fact he may want to change his nickname from ‘Mighty Mike’ to ‘Meaty Mike’) and that may have affected his reflexes, but he also seemed to be mentally defeated before the first bell.
That ref saved Fana’s life. The WBC’s no. 1 contender was too light in the ass to get Barrera’s respect. He had one punch – the jab, and all that did was set up Barrera’s accurate counter shots. It was target practice from the opening bell. I still can’t believe GBP charged $40 for that mess, 15 rounds of “action”.
The only bright spot on the card was Montiel. He’s not Sweet Pea but he’s an immensely talented boxer-puncher. How good is he? I watched the fight with some local promoters, matchmakers and managers and I asked them who they though would win between Montiel and fellow 115-pound titlist Martin Castillo (a guy I rank in my top 20 pound-for-pound list) and everyone favored Montiel. I don’t know who wins that one, but I’d love to see it. If Castillo is not available, I’d like to see Montiel in with Jose Navarro, Alex Munoz, Z Gorres, or Gerson Guerrero.
OSCAR’S EFFECT ON BARRERA’S CAREER
What’s up Dougie? I have not written in a while. I have been following you and Gary dating back to the house of boxing site. I was the guy from LoadTV.
Anyhow…. I have given this a little thought and wanted to know what you thought. I have been watching boxing since I was a kid. When Oscar first came out of the olympics, I was a huge fan of his. My opinion began to sour of him after his fight with Pernell Whitaker (which I thought he lost, but not by much). Following that fight, I felt he went from Oscar the boxer, to Oscar the business man. He never gave Whitaker a rematch, or Quartey for that matter, but yet he gave Chavez a second opportunity where he clearly didn’t deserve one. My question is this: Do you see him having a similar effect on Barrera’s career. By this I mean do you see Barrera losing the ‘hard core’, non-ethnic boxing fan? I didn’t buy the pay-per view last night (to my fiance’s dismay), and you are getting an email from someone who’s monthly cable bill is generally north of 2 bills. I understand that he can’t possibly fight Morales every quarter (but wouldn’t it be great), but Fana didn’t belong in the ring with him, and when asked about Pacquiao he gives us the old “what would they say if I cleaned up El Terrible’s scraps?’ Last time we checked, the Pac Man is nobody’s scraps. He lost by one round. If anyone needs revenge, it’s Barrera. I am wondering if Marco the fighter, is becoming Marco the business man. Let’s hope not. Sorry for the long-winded email. Keep up the good work.- Peter
What up, Peter? ‘Oscar the boxer’ could afford to be ‘Oscar the business man’ because he was such a cross-over star. De La Hoya could fight the 147-pound equivalent to Mzonke Fana and still sell out arenas (Patrick Charpentier, anyone?) and even do strong pay-per-view numbers. Oscar the promoter is going to find out that as great as Barrera is, he is not a cross-over star. The numbers for Barrera-Fana are going to be dismal and the Don Haskins Center didn’t appear close to being sold out, which tells me the next time we see Barrera in the ring he’s going to be in with a tough fighter, if not a fellow star. Oscar the promoter will see to it.
By the way, what ever happened to LoadTV?
FORGET BARRERA-FANA, WHAT ABOUT BARRERA-MARQUEZ
Hey Doug, I didn’t even pay to watch this fight because I knew this would be a mis-match between Barerra and Fana. Yeah this was probably one of his mandatories for his title so he successfully defended it. But Doug Barerra said at the post fight press-conference he is staying at 130 and he also said he wants to fight the fights that the fans want to see. Sense being a big fan of boxing and you yourself the next big fight I would like Barerra to be in with is: and it is not Pacquiao (I knew he wants his revenge form that devasting loss but Pacquiao needs some time off from fighting the likes of Morales and Marquez back to back two tough and rough fights and re-group.) The Barerra and Morales rivalry might be one of the best in boxing history but I hoping for a new and possibly all-time boxing rivalry just as good are better than Barerra and Morales and that’s Barerra vs. Marquez That’s the one matchup know one talks about and I think it would the closest technically sound matches made the winner would be the fighter who makes the smallest of mistakes. In my opinion Marquez and Barerra are mirror images of each other more so than Barerra and Morales. The Barerra and Morales matchup reminds me of the UNC and Duke rivalry in college basketball they go up against each other so much that there is really no mismatches. Doug I think this would be a awesome matchup big for the mexican fans and big for the sport. Doug keep up the good work and God bless and please send me some response and give me your honest opinion on this subject. – Jonathan, Louisiana
Barrera-Marquez is a matchup Southern California fight fans have dreamed about for more than 10 years as both Marco and Juan Manuel came up under the Forum Boxing promotional banner, which hosted regular fight cards at the Great Western Forum in my hood, Inglewood.
Alas, I doubt we will ever see it. Marquez is like Mike McCallum was in the ’80s when Leonard, Hearns, Duran and Hagler were all fighting each other for millions of dollars – too good for his own good. The big money fights for Barrera are return bouts against Morales and Pacquiao. El Terrible and PacMan both have more high-profile experience than JMM and much greater fan bases. Morales and Pacquiao also have styles that will mesh well with Barrera’s. The fact that you point out about Barrera and Marquez being “mirror images” makes the fight even less likely because a matchup of two thinking counter-punchers will likely produce a chess match instead of the war most fight fans want to see.
BOWE-ZUMBRUM
Hey Dougie: Normally if both you and Katz score a fight the same way I’d be inclined to think I was wrong – but not on Thursday. Were this the amateurs then yes, Bowe may have landed more shots – that jab of his was still working OK. But Zumbrun landed the heavier shots almost the entire fight – so give him effective aggression. And he successfully avoided all of Bowe’s big rights – almost laughably easily. So give him points for defence. And he was able to follow his plan more effectively than Bowe his – which appeared to be jab and then Fedex a right – and Bowe seemed to have more trouble handling Zumbrun’s attacks than Zumbrun handled Bowe’s. So give him ring generalship as well. I also didn’t agree with the point deduction – when was the last time you saw a much smaller man penalised for manhandling a larger one across the ring ? But allowing for the knockdown – almost the only effective power shot Bowe landed the entire fight, the point taken away, and a 10-8 (no knockdown) round to Zumbrun that even the commentators got right, I scored it 95-92 to Zumbrun – 7-3 in rounds. And I know a couple of other people who scored it similarly. It wasn’t a terrible robbery or anything, but Zumbrun deserved better.
Bowe better give it up – it’s not that he was a tub o’lard, because that can come off in time. His jab was decent, and he showed he still has some power, albeit mostly telegraphed. But he has no strength left. Zumbrun pushed him around far too easily. (But hey, what do I know…) Regards – Stephen
I scored the fight exactly like you did, Stephen, in rounds and points. (Where did you read that I scored it like Uncle Mike?) I also thought the smaller man landed the quality shots in the majority of rounds and that the point deduction for the “shoulder shove” was BS. I scored rounds 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 & 10 for “some bum”. I scored the fifth round 10-8 in favor of “Z” because I thought Bowe was in danger of being stopped right before the bell rang. Even the 10-8 round Bowe earned for his knockdown in the fourth couldn’t save “Big Flabby” on my card.
TYSON, LEWIS AND BOWE – OH MY!
Whatever Katz says, he still watched the Bowe fight. I don’t want to hear anyone’s excuses about watching… they still watched…. like I did, and I think one thing, that it may have been good for Bowe. He went ten rounds and survived a little onslaught by a game fighter. Whatever you say, he got through it, and it may help him.
What I want to talk about is the “Best Damn Sports Show” the night before. It had Jim Lampley and a couple other guys on it and they were all asked, “Who is the most overrated boxer?” One dolt said Hopkins, and then Lampley said, “Tyson.” When asked why he said, “All Tyson did was beat up drug addicts and Pimps.” But that Lamps LOVES Lewis. Why? How was Lennox Lewis better than Tyson? Let’s look at it.
Tyson was 20 years old when he beat Trevor Berbick for one of the titles. What was Lewis doing then? They are both very close in age. Tyson then beat Bonecrusher Smith and Ko’d Pinklon Thomas, a pretty bad dude. Then he beat an undefeated Tony Tucker for ALL of the titles. He knocked out a never knocked out Larry Holmes, knocked out Spinks in a couple rounds (who THE RING still considered champ) and beat Bruno and Williams. After his loss he came back and defeated the tough Razor Ruddock twice, who was a very tough guy at the time. And then, after over three years, after being locked up, he came out and won portions of the heavyweight title again.
As for Lennox Lewis, What was he doing when Mike Tyson was doing all that? He got a very late start. He got on the map by beating Bruno, Ruddock, and Tucker, YEARS after Tyson did. Then he got knocked out by Oliver McCall. The division he cleaned up contained fighters like, Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Henry Akinwande, Shannon Briggs, An OLD Holyfield, Michael Grant, Frans Botha, and David Tua. He also got knocked out again by Hasim Rahman. He did, however, beat both the guys that beat him.
I didn’t write this list for you because I KNOW you and the majority of boxing fans already know this stuff. I just wanted to write it all down and look at it, and when I do, I see two heavyweights that came in a pretty weak division and beat everyone there was to beat. They’re fairly even in that way. With one exception… Tyson did it a lot more spectacularly, he was more fun to watch, and he got people excited.
If Lampley thought Tyson was so overrated why did he call his loss to Buster Douglas the “biggest upset in sports history?” and why did he consider Lennox’s win over an old and rusty Tyson to be so great? That match meant nothing. When Tyson and Lewis were both 20, Tyson would have KILLED Lewis. Lewis is lucky he was not around during Tyson’s peak. But, that being said, it is just MY opinion.
I just want to know, and maybe you can help me, Why does Lampley look down at Tyson now? And why does Merchant have Lewis in his top ten heavyweight champions of all time and not Tyson? They’re records are pretty even to me, and Tyson made it more fun. Thanks for your time, sorry if this is too long. A big fan. – Bob
I can’t speak for Lamps and Merch; that’s just their opinions and I’m sure they can back it up.
But in my opinion, Tyson was not an overrated fighter. In his prime, he was f__king monster. Yeah, he beat some drug addicts and maybe a few pimps, as lamps stated, but those crack heads and players could BOX their sleazy asses off! Tony Tubbs, Tony Tucker, Pinklon Thomas – those guys had just as much game in the ring as they did out of it.
Tyson blew Tubbs out in two rounds. An older (and even fatter) Tubbs may have beat a young, near-prime Riddick Bowe (I thought it was a draw, and Tony came out of the crack house to give Big Daddy that boxing lesson). I don’t think Lewis would have blasted out guys like Tyrell Biggs (who gave Bowe a little trouble) and Rudduck as easily as he did if Tyson hadn’t softened them up first.
The thing that helps Lewis’s case for being ranked higher than Mike among former heavyweight champs is his win over Evander Holyfield (who was past his prime in ’99, but still dangerous). Lewis’s win over Tyson didn’t impress me at all. That was like Larry Holmes smacking around Muhammad Ali.
For the record, I don’t have Tyson or Lewis in my top 10 all-time heavyweights (Holyfield just makes the cut). I do rank Lewis a notch or two above Tyson, but in a head-to-head matchup in their respective primes, I would have to go with Iron Mike. Tyson was just too quick, too busy, and elusive for Lewis to nail on his way inside. His combinations were too crisp, accurate and too damn hard; plus it would only take one clean shot for Tyson to put Lewis to sleep.
WTF HAPPENED TO ANCHONDO?
Dougie, Things werent supposed to happen this way. The kid looked very good against Vargas and Chacon. He can box and slug, and never seemed to have a big problem with conditioning before. What the hell happened? He was a stones throw from a fight with Morales or Barrera. Is Mikey the new Francisco Bojado, but with less heart? How could Buddy let the kid come in almost five pounds too heavy?
Keep up the good work bro. Also wondering if you heard anything about who Vivian Harris is fighting next? All the best – Badkarma
“Is Mikey the new Francisco Bojado?” That’s an interesting question considering that both So. Cali. talents were once trained by Joe Hernandez and both lost their first fight after leaving the L.A.-based Boriqua. However, where Hernandez had Bojado from the amateurs, he only worked with Anchondo for a handful of fights (I think from Goyo Vargas to the Julio Chacon fight).
One thing I recall about Anchondo’s transition from his old trainers to Hernandez (and Clemente Medina) was that the kid needed some time to get used to the different training methods and style adjustments that Hernandez tried to implement. Perhaps having such a high-profile fight against a hardnosed SOB like Barrios was too much for Anchondo in his first fight under the Team Freedom banner and with Buddy McGirt.
NOT-SO MIGHTY MIKE
I had never seen Mighty Mike Anchando fight before Barrios took him to school.
I will never watch another one of his fights again, talk about no talent. He has multiple flaws: holds his hands WAY too low (open for any punch), he cannot trade with a guy because he has no chin, and he is SUPER slow. He has no speed at all. He was 25-0?? What a padded record he’s had, you guys should expose fighters with padded records like that and I trust that you will. And Buddy McGirt? He’s one of my favorite trainers but c’mon Buddy, what a huge technical flaw Anchando has by keeping his hands SO low. I take nothing away from Barrios, he did what he was supposed to, and I think he stuck it to Freitas, so no disrespect to Barrios, but Anchando is pathetic. You guys dont give coverage to sorry guys like Matt Vanda, but you do to Anchando? What gives? Love the site though, keep up the awesome work. – Jesse.
Matt Vanda hasn’t beat dangerous former title holders like Goyo Vargas and Julio Chacon. Anchondo had. That’s why we gave the kid ink. Nobody claimed him to be the next great champ. Most media that has seen him fight and interviewed just agree that he’s got natural talent (including very fast hands) and start potential in the personality department.
But raw talent and personality won’t prevent a beast like Barrios from making you his bitch if you don’t do something to get his respect early in a fight.
I used to think Anchondo was just a popular So. Cali. club fighter, but his win over Vargas – who was on a win streak and had just bludgeoned Gary Balletto in his previous fight – made me think otherwise. I’ve never seen Anchondo fight as poorly as he did vs. Barrios, even when he was on the club circuit. I’ve never seen his hands look so slow. Something must have been wrong. I’m sure the weight was a major factor, but something else seemed wrong with him. He was not there mentally and he’s usually very focused going into a fight. Maybe he just couldn’t handle the pressure, in which case, he’s got to start all over again if he still wants to do this for a living because most people who saw him fight for the first time Friday night are going to write him off as garbage like you have.
BARRIOS BURRIES ANCHONDO
Doug- Just watched FNF. (I will forever hate college baseball because of the pre-emption.) All those articles in Maxboxing over the last year touting Anchondo, and the first time I see him, he lays a monster egg. What the hell happened? Coming in overweight? Is this guy a professional or a Toughman wannabe? According to Dan Rafael, his purse was $250,000. How come such a big purse for an ESPN fight? And how come Barrios didn’t get more than $30,000 of that money for agreeing to fight after Anchondo failed to make weight? (He should’ve gotten half.) If there is one thing I’ve learned over the years as a boxing fan, it is that you never sleep on an Argentinean. Those guys are something else, whether it be a Weis, a Bonavena, a Monzon, or a Barrios. They are tough, rough, well-conditioned, and do not lack balls. What the hell happened with Anchondo’s preparation (or lack thereof), and is it partly Buddy McGirt’s fault? (P.S. Riddick Bowe is a tragedy waiting to happen.) – CB
I’m with you on college baseball. I can’t believe that crap went 16 freakin’ innings. What a pointless game.
I don’t think fans should blame Buddy McGirt or Anchondo’s conditioner for his failure to make weight, even though their jobs are to prepare the fighter for his opponent. I think Anchondo is old enough with enough pro experience to know his body and know what he has to do in order to make weight and be both physically and mentally prepared for a world-class challenger like Barrios. I think Anchondo has to shoulder most of the blame for his first loss.
If Anchondo made $250,000 for this first defense it’s because Team Freedom came out of the pocket to pay him that much. I think they over-paid the kid. I bet they won’t do that again.
WHAT HAPPENED TO ANCHONDO?
Hi Doug. I was kinda shocked to hear that Mike Anchondo lost his WBO belt on the scale on Thursday. Then, he came in to the ring looked very sluggish and get knocked out yesterday. What happened to him? I read the article about him on Maxboxing few days prior to the fight and he sounded very relaxed and motivated. Then, he came in over weight and looked like a dead man. I don’t get it. I noticed right away from the opening bell that he looked very sluggish and slow. His timing was really off and Barios’s right hand landed every time he threw. I’ve seen Anchondo’s fights few times before and he was pretty decent fighter I thought. (I think one of those fights was against Goyo Vargas on HBO Latino.) I know he’s a way better boxer than what he appeared last night. I’m really wondering what happened to him last night. He looked like he was sick or something. – naoki
One thing I know about Anchondo is that he’s always struggled to make weight and he’s always walked around at 155 to 160 pounds in-between fights. When he was with Joe Hernandez, Joe used to have Mike move in with him two weeks prior to his fights. They had digital scales with them at all times, even traveled with two scales, in order to monitor Anchondo’s weight many times during the day. In other words, Joe babied Mike.
When Anchondo left Golden Boy Promotions for Team Freedom his new promoters gave him everything he asked for, but then they expected him to deliver like a professional, like a champion, without them having to hold his hand. Obviously, Anchondo was not ready for that kind of responsibility.
ANCHONDO & BARRIOS
Hey whats up man? Hope all is well with you and your family.
What the hell was that all about with “Mighty” Mike? I had never seen him fight but from his record and after his last two victories I thought this guy was good, plus he’s calling out Barrera and Morales left and right, so I figured he could back his s__t up. But I had honestly not seen such a poor title defense since Bruce Seldon, this guy looked more like he was making his pro debut. You seem to be familiar with him, what happened? This guy looked punch drunk from the first shot he took and never recovered, and the way he crawled back to his corner after the last knockdown, was a sad sight. I do not want to put this guy down because I respect anyone who has the balls and the heart to get in that ring, but he should view his own performance before he starts being as cocky and arrogant as he was before the fight. Barrios is a good fighter but I would not call him an elite champion, I would pick Hernandez or Chavez over him. And I think Barrera would pick him apart. Thanks for your thoughts and reply. Keep up the good work homey, I live for this s__t!!!!!! – Big Juan B
Anchondo’s bravado before the Barrios fight will not endear him many fans. It’s OK to be cocky, but you gotta back your words up with results in the boxing world. Anchondo may have to change his nickname to “Mighty Mouth” since that’s the only thing he got off with vs. Barrios.
That reference to the “Atlantic City Express” is a good one. Bruce Seldon was terrified of Mike Tyson, and I think Anchondo was at the very least intimidated by Barrios. He was not mentally prepared to deal with a guy as rough and experienced as Barrios. Even if Anchondo was sluggish from gaining too much weight, he should have known that he needed to get Barrios’s respect early and he didn’t even try. If you don’t do something to hurt Barrios and get his respect, he’ll take a piss all over you and that’s just what he did to Anchondo.
I wouldn’t call Barrios an elite fighter, either – he’s just another title holder, but he’s got balls and an exciting style, so I hope to see him in the ring ASAP. I think he’d make a good fight with the winner of next month’s Chavez-Hernandez bout or with IBF titlist Robbie Peden. I agree that Barrera would pick Barrios apart.
ANCHONDO’S TRAINERS
Hey Doug, you got any inside info on what the hell was wrong with Mighty Mike?
Obviously he was a tad bit out of shape but he seemed to be mentally out of the fight as well. Going through all those trainers may have had a lot to do with it.- John
I don’t think it was good for him to have three different trainers in an eight-month span going into this fight (and I talked about this on last week’s TNR). Joe Hernandez, John David Jackson and Buddy McGirt all have different styles of training, different philosophies and different bases of operation, but it was his choice, ultimately, to switch trainers twice and move his camp to Miami, so he has to take responsibility for his first loss.
He was simply not ready to fight Friday night. That’s the “inside story”. It wouldn’t have mattered if Hernandez or Jackson were in his corner – he still would have got his ass kicked by Barrios. If Eddie Futch, Ray Arcel and Jack Blackburn were resurrected to work Anchondo’s corner against Barrios, the kid still would have lost. He may as well had Steve Kim and I in his corner. I would have stopped the bout after the first round because it was obvious that he didn’t come to fight.
ANCHONDO’S “PERSONAL ISSUES”
Let’s not be too hard on “Mighty” Mike. After all, as Floyd said, the man must have had personal issues going into the fight. Maybe his infant son passed away, or one of his close friends was killed in a car accident during training camp. Oh, my bad – those things happened to Barrios, who came in light, in-shape, focused, and ready to give the fans what they came for. If Anchondo is going to cite his promotional issues with GBP as his main reason for not performing, he needs to take a hard look at what’s really important in life; I can tell you right now that Barrios damn well knows. – Wilson
Your low view of Mike is sure to be shared by most fans who watched his non-effort Friday night. If the Barrios fight was the first time you’ve seen him (and I’m sure it was for most fans since his wins over Cassiani, Vargas and Chacon were shown on HBO Latino), Anchondo’s name is mud. In fact, he might as well change his nickname to “Muddy Mike” until he redeems himself.
PROPS TO ESPN; HATE FOR OSCAR
Hey Dougie, One of you readers asked about the coverage of Tito-Wright. But even before that fight which is more than a month away, what about the ESPN PPV card? That is one I’m pretty excited about. For 29 bucks, we get to see big bombs with Kermit/Margarito, the return of Sugar (hopefully), and the rise of Juan (hopefully). Maybe these guys don’t qualify for top ten PFP rankings but the 4 fights make up a heck of a card, especially considering the price. And on a side note, I truly am a DLH hater. I tried to deny it for a while, after his running from Tito, singing like a fairy, half-hearted out of shape efforts, and fag voice.but this Barrera PPV card has put me over the top. I HATE HIM. AND IT FEELS GREAT TO ADMIT IT! – Nelson, San Jose, CA
In the immortal words of the great Lou DiBella, “Why all the hate?” I’m sure Goldie will learn a thing or two from observing how Main Events conducts their business (yea, right).
Pound-for-pound, schmound-for-schmound, I don’t care if the April 23rd card lacks top 10 P4P fighters, I’m still looking forward to it more than any other show this year. Margarito-Cintron is going to be a war.
CASTILLO IS TOP 5, P4P
just a quick question. Why is Castillo not ranked in anyone’s top 5? The guy has beaten Lazcano, Csamayor and Julio Diaz in 9 months. Who does that these days? NOBODY! I know if he beats Corrales he’d have to be top 5 at that point, right? I put him above the feather phenom’s and Winky. #5 or #4, like I have him, seems fair. The man is completely Undisputed. What do you think? – Dan
I think he’s top 10. Lazcano and Diaz were solid lightweights, but neither man was anywhere near the top 25. Casamayor was top 20 when Castillo fought him, but the Mexican only managed a split decision over the crafty Cuban. If Castillo beats Corrales, who is bottom top 10, he will definitely be top 5.
Erik Morales has had a better run than Castillo even though he lost to Barrera last November. So has PacMan, even though he lost to Morales.
HELP WITH ALI-NORTON DEBATE
Dougie, I know you answer this question almost every month, but I need back-up here. I got into a recent debate with an individual. He claims Ali is a great fighter, and the only reason he lost the first fight was due to a broken jaw.
I tried to explain it was Norton’s difficult style that caused the loss. Explaining the concept/cliche “Styles make fights.” Mentioning that there are some experts that believe Norton won all 3 fights. I need your two cents on why Ali lost. – Matt
You are correct, Norton had a style that disrupted Ali’s rhythm and did not play into his strengths. Norton also had a good game plan from all-time great trainer Eddie Futch, who knew a thing or two about beating Ali.
I’m sure the broken jaw played a part in Ali losing the first fight to Norton, but it was not the only factor. Ali did not take Norton seriously – he was not in the best of shape and he was not as focused as he was for bigger fights (Norton was considered a decent heavyweight, but more a West Coast club fighter than real contender).
I thought Norton won two out of their three fights – the first and the third (which was a blatant robbery). The second fight was competitive, but an in-shape Ali won it clearly in my opinion.
IS KIM’S DISEASE CONTAGIOUS?
Doug, Please be careful when you are around Steve Kim. It seems some of his east coast hating is slipping into your work. I hope it isn’t terminal, as it is in Mr. Kim. Are you holding a grudge because of that time you traveled to New York to see your “boy” Valero fight, only to witness the Athletic Commission deep sixing his physical and taking away his license.(Yeah, Yeah. That must be it)
Enjoy your work regardless.
(Please understand this was written with tongue firmly implanted in cheek. I don’t want to add fuel to the fire so to speak.)
P.S. Do you think it is worth going to see Ruiz/Toney at the Garden? I would hate to lay out the dough, only to witness another QuietMan hugfest caused by Toney’s body failing. What is the likelihood of James being in shape enough to beat Ruiz and not getting hurt in the process?
Have a great day out there in LaLa Land. – Arnold
Well, I certainly hope I haven’t picked up that particular disease. I was born in NYC; went to school out there. What makes you think I hate on the East Coast? If I’m doing it, I’m not even aware of it. Give me some examples.
I would just watch Ruiz-Toney on TV. It doesn’t seem like the caliber of fight that would constitute a live major “event”. Plus the styles may not mesh very well – we’ve got a counter-puncher vs. a wrestler.
VALERO HATER DOWN UNDER
valero is a glorious fighter. movement speed combos, everything. hey when i need a good sparing partner for a semi tough fight i might get him to come down to oztrailer to make me look ordinary. i think there is a little something missing in valero and it is at boxrec.gymlegend who cares a couple of sad nerds on the max boxing forums.iguess it keeps them masterbating until the next star wars film dougie morales has done it on the big bigger and biggest stage, valero has done nothing, zero. boxrec never lies he s beaten no one, hes bashed them quickly but,but,but…. you insult our great sport by suggesting that valero beats morales .
you are being read by many fans of boxing, dont try and invent a new god, theres no need, hes out there for real. and hes not called valero. – martini
Boxrec.com is a great boxing resource on the internet. If they went pay-only, I’d be among the first to sign up. But Boxrec can only tell you so much about a fighter, or the fighters he has fought.
Go look at the record of Shane Mosley before he fought for his first world title. Nobodies, huh? Look at the records of the guys he beat. Not very impressive are they? Didn’t matter. I knew he was the s__t when he was 15-0 (14) after I watched him down a guy named Raul Hernandez (10 years ago). Hernandez’s record at the time Mosley beat him, according to Boxrec, was 16-23-2. Judging by this record you would probably assume that Hernandez was some Tijuana cab driver with no business in the ring. But I know the story behind the stats. I had seen the guy fight before he took on Mosley. I knew he was a tough SOB. Boxrec.com can’t give you the story behind the fights (including the losses). The way Mosley blew out Hernandez (in two rounds) told me he was special, because no one had an easy night with Hernandez. Likewise with Valero and the way he blasted Roque Cassiani in one round. No one has an easy night with Cassiani, and NO ONE blasts the Colombian spoiler in less than three minutes. But Valero did. Guess what, Martie, that means something.
I’m not trying to invent a new “boxing god”. I’ve only written four stories about Valero. At this point, all I’m doing is debating silly asses like you about his talent and potential in Mail Bags. I think I’m right, you think you’re right – whatever. If you want it to stop, then please stop emailing me about Edwin Valero and start asking questions or making comments on other subjects in boxing.
THE VALERO MAIL BAG
whats up Dougie, I wanted to commend you on hyping up this Valero kid. Why? Because of you I can’t wait to actually see the man fight. Back 10 years or so ago, I used to get all my boxing information from the Ring and KO magazine and I loved it when they hyped up a prospect by calling him a knockout machine or a future great. It makes it exciting when you get to see the prospect on TV for the first time and eventually how far he will go. Some make it, some don’t. If Valero gets licensed he could come back and fall flat on his face and it would not surprise me at all b/c I’ve seen it all to many times. If that happened you would not hear the end of it and thats a shame b/c in my eyes you are creating excitement and anticipation for boxing fans. I do see how some people see the hype as premature and what if Francisco Bajado failed his medical exam, for the same reasons as Valero, after he was 9-0 with 9 devastating KO’s. He was already being touted as a future great at that point and everybody and their mother would be predicting greatness for Bajado while he is suspended. Well, fortunately he wasn’t injured but unfortunately he lost his next fight, changed his style, and hasn’t looked the same since. But like I said, I enjoy the hype and keep up the good work. By the way, I saw someone sportin the Maxboxing T-shirt at the Morales-Pacquiao fight got pissed off until mine came in the next week, so thanks and take care. – Bo
I agree with you, Bo. I enjoy hearing about young phenoms and seeing if they pan out. Like you said, sometimes they do, often times they don’t. But it’s exciting to follow. I wish Valero had the chance to prove me right or wrong.
Regarding Bojado, yes, if he would have been suspended at 9-0 he would have been regarded as a phenom on ice – I actually think he has more natural boxing talent than Valero. The difference between the two fighters, if I may say so (I was able to view both guys train at similar points in their careers), is that Valero shows the kind of work ethic that Bojado lacked even when he was knocking everybody out. That doesn’t mean that he’s going to become anything more than a gym legend.
